Best Single Season Ever (Statistically) for a Player

Al C.risafulli · #1 06-04-2010, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Sorry, 'roid fueled stats don't count.

Aside from the fact that we baseball fans seem to assign a greater penalty to roid users than fans of other sports, can you explain why?

-Al

Tony Gordon · #2 06-04-2010, 10:50 AM

I think Bonds has to be in the discussion. Another player that needs to be in the discussion is Nap Lajoie.

In 1901 Lajoie batted .426! Led the league with 232 hits, 145 runs, 48 2Bs, 14 HRs, 125 RBIs. He also had 14 3Bs and 27 SBs.

PolarBear · #3 06-04-2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

Aside from the fact that we baseball fans seem to assign a greater penalty to roid users than fans of other sports, can you explain why?

-Al

Just my personal opinion but I think the steroid era was the worst era in baseball and it obviously allowed players like Bonds to put up numbers like he did. It's cheating, and nothing less.

I think the commissioner should expunge all records of people confirmed to have used steroids. You can keep the "statistics" in the books, but they should not count officially for anything as it relates to the player who has been confirmed as a steroid user.

Aaron is the career HR champ, and Maris is the season HR champ as far as I'm concerned.

Al C.risafulli · #4 06-04-2010, 11:09 AM

Well, I can understand that logic, but to me it's next to impossible to separate the users from the non-users, and to quantify the results of using.

Very few players were actually confirmed to have used steroids. 104, right? Lots of names have been implicated. Lots of other names have not - Griffey, as an example. Pujols, as another. Do we know they didn't use? Nope. It wasn't that long ago that people were rooting hard for Alex Rodriguez to break Bonds' record, because at least he was clean. The reality is that all we have is these guys' word - there are, apparently, a million ways to get around these tests.

Pitchers, also, have been implicated. So if a batter on steroids is facing a pitcher on steroids, doesn't that level the playing field? And if 80% of baseball - an estimate I've read multiple times - was using steroids, is it cheating?

And do we know what percentage of home runs were a result of steroids and not improved conditioning, nutrition, smaller parks, better equipment, weaker pitching? No.

And if we're going to expunge everyone who cheated using steroids, then we've got to expunge everyone who cheated using amphetamines. Pete Rose's hit record? Gone. What evidence do we have that Hank Aaron wasn't using amphetamines, besides his word? None.

Do we know Roger Maris wasn't using anything? No. But look at his career stats, and how his career ended - if he played in the 90s with those numbers, we'd automatically assume he was using.

Do we kick out Gaylord Perry's numbers? Or anyone who's used a corked bat? The 19th century guys who used monkey testosterone (or whatever ridiculous thing it was)?

To me, if we're going to disregard the records of guys we suspect of using steroids [I]when we're considering them for our own opinions[I], that's fine. But if we're going to do a pure statistical analysis of the best offensive season ever, then Barry Bonds' 2004 season is the best, period.

-Al

barrysloate · #5 06-04-2010, 11:30 AM

In 2002 Bonds' slugging percentage was .862, the highest ever.

I agree with Al that it's going to be really tough to sort this all out. There are guys who definitely were clean, guys who said they were clean but are lying, and guys who admit that they took steroids. How does one assess all these records given this mishmash of information?

Frankly, if you take away 20% of all of Bonds' career totals, assuming that roughly equals the advantage he had while using steroids, he still has enough numbers to make the Hall of Fame.

The whole thing is a mess, and I have no idea how any determination of what counts and what shouldn't will ever be made.

And for the record, Tim Raines was one of the great players of the 1980's and one of the greatest base stealers of all time. He claimed he used to play with a vial of cocaine in the back pocket of his uniform pants. Do we delete all of his records from the record book?

Robextend · #6 06-04-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I agree with Al that it's going to be really tough to sort this all out. There are guys who definitely were clean, guys who said they were clean but are lying, and guys who admit that they took steroids. How does one assess all these records given this mishmash of information?

I agree, and I don't think you can do anything about the statistics from that era. Guys like Bonds, McGwire (1998, 1999) and Sosa (1998, 1999, 2001) are guilty in the court of public opinion. You can take their stats with a grain of salt, but unfortunately I believe they have to be considered in the discussion as well.

yanksfan09 · #7 06-04-2010, 11:40 AM

I would agree, the whole thing is a mess. There is no way to ever quantify and completely rationalize the steroid stats.

We will never know everyone who did it, probably never even half of the guys even if that other list comes out. also each guy used different stuff. Some HGH, some Steroids (of which there are many different kinds), some both, some greenies, herbs, and who knows what else.... Also you have to assume that each different chemical can have a different reaction to each individual who's using it. It is a mess that can't ever be fully sorted out.

I guess the best we can do is seperate all the known users stats for other eras and be leery of other guys numbers from this era.

As for Ruth, like others have stated; I just don't see any way at all to diminish what he accomplished. He was by far the best all time hitter (and heck of a pitcher) imo.

hunterdutchess · #8 06-04-2010, 11:51 AM

I am still waiting for someone to hit 62 HR in a season. It's gonna be Pujols, Howard or Cabrera (if he can stay sober).

packs · #9 06-04-2010, 11:51 AM

Babe Herman's 1930 season has to up there with one of the best single season performances of all time.

393 batting average
241 hits
48 doubles
35 home runs
130 rbi's
slugged .678

Baseball Rarities · #10 06-04-2010, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

Babe Herman's 1930 season has to up there with one of the best single season performances of all time.

393 batting average
241 hits
48 doubles
35 home runs
130 rbi's
slugged .678

I agree that this was a very good season, but not one of the all-time greatest. His numbers look impressive across the board, but he did not even lead the League in a single category.

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