Who is your favorite pre-1930 player and why?

[brett]

Napoleon Lajoie. Aside from being underrated because of Cobb's presence he was a dignified, classy player and they named the team after him for Christ's sake!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by brett

Napoleon Lajoie. Aside from being underrated because of Cobb's presence he was a dignified, classy player and they named the team after him for Christ's sake!

I would have guessed Jackson for you lol.
Mine is probably Wagner -- no less an authority than Sam Crawford said he was even better than Cobb.

[kmac32]

Elmer Miller because he was a distant relative and Team mate at Ruth's in the 1921 World Series

[Rob D.]

Jack Dunn

[Jason Carota]

Smoky Joe Wood.

"Can I throw harder than Joe Wood? Listen mister, no man alive can throw any harder than Smoky Joe Wood." - Walter Johnson

That about sums it up.

Excellent pitcher during his Red Sox career, and a great batter with the Indians.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Jack Dunn

Sarcasm = terrorism

[brett]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would have guessed Jackson for you lol.
Mine is probably Wagner -- no less an authority than Sam Crawford said he was even better than Cobb.

. In regards to Crawford's statement about Wagner, Crawford notoriously HATED Cobb so I would take his statement with a grain of salt. Cobb is probably the second greatest player ever after Babe. I'd put Wagner in the top 10 with the likes of Hornsby, Gehrig and others.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by brett

Napoleon Lajoie. Aside from being underrated because of Cobb's presence he was a dignified, classy player and they named the team after him for Christ's sake!

Brett,

Just today I was reading Sports Illustrated, and with Ken Griffey Jr.'s retirement, the magazine assembled its all-time team of Hall of Famers who retired without a World Series ring. Right away I looked at the second base spot, expecting to see Lajoie. Of course SI went with Ryne Sandberg. I laughed.

[brett]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Brett,

Just today I was reading Sports Illustrated, and with Ken Griffey Jr.'s retirement, the magazine assembled its all-time team of Hall of Famers who retired without a World Series ring. Right away I looked at the second base spot, expecting to see Lajoie. Of course SI went with Ryne Sandberg. I laughed.

What a joke. Sandberg is SO overrated it's ridiculous... Good player, but saying he's better than Lajoie is literally like saying Patrick Ewing was better than Chamberlain. Not even in the same class.

[celoknob]

After he retired, Johnny Kling bought the Kansas City Blues in the early 1930s and quickly eliminated segregated seating when that was not a popular stance. He's my choice.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by celoknob

After he retired, Johnny Kling bought the Kansas City Blues in the early 1930s and quickly eliminated segregated seating when that was not a popular stance. He's my choice.

Good call there. Another extremely underrated player. Probably the best catcher in the dead ball era. His absence in 1909 likely cost the Cubs a 4th straight pennant.

[glchen]

Always been a big fan of Gehrig. Always a class act.

[sbfinley]

Can't believe no one has mentioned Ed Delahanty. The man was a beast in a time when the game went as followed: single, advance the runner, single, advance the runner.

Plus his demise is the stuff of "Unsolved Mysteries."

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by brett

What a joke. Sandberg is SO overrated it's ridiculous... Good player, but saying he's better than Lajoie is literally like saying Patrick Ewing was better than Chamberlain. Not even in the same class.

With all respect to Ryne Sandberg, he was no Patrick Ewing.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bill James ranks Wagner 2nd, Cobb 5th.

[rdixon1208]

Grover Alexander

Mostly because we share a common drinking problem

[gracecollector]

Walter "Rabbit" Maranville - he was right up there with the other jokesters and characters of the dead ball era. Plus he had plenty of talent too. Just seemed to love the game and had a great sense of humor. He always hamed it up for photographers too, so the images we are left of him bring me a smile. Read "Run, Rabbit, Run : the hilarious and mostly true tales of Rabbit Maranville" for his antics.

[brett]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Bill James ranks Wagner 2nd, Cobb 5th.

In this case Bill James is flat out wrong. As great as Wagner was, none of the numbers compare. I'm not just talking about overall career numbers because Cobb played a few years longer, but their 162 game AVERAGE goes as follows: At Bats: Cobb 611 / Wagner 605, Runs: Cobb 120 / Wagner 101, Hits: Cobb 224 / Wagner 198, Doubles: Cobb 39 / Wagner 37, Triples: Cobb 16 / Wagner 15, Homers: Cobb 6 / Wagner 6, RBI: Cobb 103 / Wagner 100, Steals: Cobb 48 / Wagner 42, Walks: Cobb 67 / Wagner 56, On Base Percentage: Cobb .433 / Wagner .391, Career Slugging Percentage: Cobb .512 / Wagner .467, and finally Career Average: Cobb .366 (highest of all-time) / Wagner .328 (37th highest of all-time). In Wagner's best season he hit .381 while Cobb had 9 seasons better than that including 3 over .400 (his best was .420). Bottom line is it's not even close. There isn't ONE facet of hitting that Wagner was better than Cobb. Although one of the greatest ever, Wagner gets a little more love than he deserves because of the position he played and the mystique of a baseball card. One can make a strong argument that Cobb was the greatest ever (I'll still go with Babe), and I'd put Wagner a few spots behind them both after the likes of Hornsby, Gehrig and possibly Musial, but just ahead of Lajoie, Speaker, and some of the other legends of the game. Not that any of this matters because it's all opinion, but the Sporting News ranked Cobb 3rd best (after Ruth and Mays) and Wagner 13th (their top-ranked shortstop).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ruth pretty clearly ranks first. As for second, I think strong arguments could be made for Cobb, Wagner, Mays, Bonds, and anecdotally anyhow, Oscar Charleston.