Why are pencil autographs from the pre-1950s era so disrespected by collectors?

[T206Collector]

But, c'mon, David and Jeff.... the two examples you shared of not caring if it was personalized (or wanting it more) were both personalized with your names. Of course the feeling would be different there.

To be clear, obviously a fair number of autograph collectors will still buy something regardless of whether it was personalized to someone else. For me, I'd collect personalized T206 cards every day of the week. But it is also obvious that non-personalized, signed items are in higher demand and appeal to a wider audience.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

But it is also obvious that non-personalized, signed items are in higher demand and appeal to a wider audience.

Fine. If you are willing to pay more for an uninscribed item, more power to you. But don't try to make non-personalized items out of personalized items.

Better condition cards are in higher demand than poor condition cards, but it's an absolute no-no to "improve" the condition of a card. Artifacts should be treated the same way.

[Exhibitman]

If it looks nice pencil is fine with me, and it is often a lot cheaper than ink.

[Michael B]

I see that this old thread has been resurrected by Adam and being a new member I thought I would add my perspective. I personally have no problem with pencil signatures. Sometimes you need to collect what you can find. When I was heavily buying and selling Civil War signatures in the 1980's and early 1990's you rarely had a choice on what you could acquire, especially with generals who were killed in battle. There are a few where the easiest item to acquire is a signed stock certificate or an envelope addressed to their wife as "Mrs. fill in the blank". If you want/need the signature, that is what you accept.

I would not erase any pencil if it was in the persons hand, but if it was in anothers hand and it detracted from what I was interested it I would consider it. The first scan is a case in point. I purchased this album page that was signed by some professional wrestler and David Sheppard. Sheppard won a silver medal in weightlifting at the 1956 Olympics and died in 2000. He is a good signature for Olympic collectors. The wrestler's signature was just about Sheppard's and just touching the 'D' in David. By erasing the other signature I now have a nicely signed album page of a deceased Olympic medalist. Looking closely you can see the remnants of the signature touching the 'D' and the ghost impression of the signature left by the pressure on the paper. Using a photo loupe you can see some disruption of the paper, but it does not detract from the page. I used a Sanford Magic Rub eraser. They are white and non abrasive like artist erasers. Another consideration for pencil signatures: They don't run or fade if wet. If you had a small clip or item glued to another page using one of the old glues, that is animal based, soaking the item in distilled water will not damage the signature. Putting it between two pieces of absorbent paper like paper towels and pressing with any heavy weight or books will prevent rippling. I use an old book press I pulled out of the trash on the sidewalk in Downtown Boston about 25 years ago. Think of the machine used by Uncle Fester in the Addams Family TV show.

As for personalizaiton, I don't like it in person, but if it is an older item I love it as it is additional writing in the hand of the person. Below are three examples from an autograph album I found on ebay. It was owned by a young girl named Sonja who lived in Chicago. After the 1932 Olympics in Los Angeles the German Olympic team stayed there overnight on their way to New York to catch an ocean liner back home. She got about 20 signatures of team members in her book. Fortunately the seller had no clue as to what they were other than German signatures. The book include these:

Emil Hirschfeld (1903-1968) - won a bronze medal in shotput 1928. No medal in 1932. Inscribed to Sonja and mentions the Olympics, Chicago, his hometown and is dated

Jochen Buchner (19905-78) - won a bronze medal in the 400m in 1928. No medal in 1932. Great personalized inscription along with a sketch.

Fritz Hendrix (1901-41) - silver medal in Los Angeles in the 4x100m relay. Not personalized, but a great inscription. He was killed on the Russian Front at Leningrad in 1941 while a member of the German Army. His wife also signed the book and competed in 3 Olympics and his daughter won a silver medal in 1964.

[jgmp123]

Great forum topic...

- Early 1958 Roberto Clemente signed scorecard....

- Chief Bender and Earle Combs signed newspaper....

[HOFautosChris]

Here is my favorite item in my collection and it happens to be a pencil signature. Program signed by Rabbit Maranville, George Specs Torporcer, George Selkirk and Rip Collins.

I also remember reading somewhere that Pencil is a permanent medium and that ink by composition will break down. Do not know how true that is but this looks as good I imagine as the day it was signed 75 years ago.

[David Atkatz]

Quite true, Chris. Ink fades, pencil does not.