help! photo ID "proof" needed

[ElCabron]

Well if those two aren't enough I'm not sure anything will be. Really not sure what more they're looking for.

-Ryan

[rhettyeakley]

I agree with Ryan, pretty straight forward with the id in this case--you can even see the areas of premature graying on his temples in all the shots!

Them saying this isn't enough after seeing some of their past mistakes makes one really scratch their head.

There are plenty of images of Dillon out there so I would just throw together as many as you can find and show them all of them.

-Rhett

[prewarsports]

How about telling SGC that Frank Dillon's family donated all of his items to the Helms Athletic Foundation in California and that the person you bought it from has been selling the items from that very public collection (Iron clad provenance and not just photo ID). That plus the obvious photo comparisons are WAY more than is usually out there for photo identification.

[3-2-count]

One more for you Jeff.

[Anthony S.]

The guy apparently spent his entire life with the exact same expression on his face.

[barrysloate]

The Brooklyn cabinet you posted matches Dillon's identical pose in the 1905 Spalding Guide. Unfortunately, there is not a corresponding one of him in a Detroit uniform.

[FrankWakefield]

I wish you well with it...

These aren't close up portraits, but maybe they'll help. Pop Dillon was quite a ballplayer. Thanks for posting that Horner Cabinet card of him. Wish more folks were aware of his impact on baseball.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Them saying this isn't enough after seeing some of their past mistakes makes one really scratch their head.

Rhett - they tightened things up on the photo ID situation a little more than a year ago - I submitted something for ID 10 months ago and also was surprised they felt what I provided didn't meet the standard of proof. So, when looked at as a body of work, this is certainly not consistent with their previous IDs, but within their "new" system of standards, this is the norm.

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by Matt

Rhett - they tightened things up on the photo ID situation a little more than a year ago - I submitted something for ID 10 months ago and also was surprised they felt what I provided didn't meet the standard of proof. So, when looked at as a body of work, this is certainly not consistent with their previous IDs, but within their "new" system of standards, this is the norm.

So - what are their standards? I submit that they don't have any. How do you sell an authentication service for which you have no articulable standards?

[rhettyeakley]

Mark, I completely agree with you. It would be like someone sending in an autograph for evaluation and then also having to also provide the exemplars as well. I understand that in very rare instances w/in the autograph hobby there are no known examples of a signature. However, in this case with the Dillon photo there are plenty of images of Dillon to study to provide a positive match, isn't this what you are paying for w/ the service or is it just the slab that you are purchasing? Do they do any legwork themselves with this service or not?
-Rhett

[D. Bergin]

Is SGC a photo ID authenticator or a Card authenticator?

It sounds like they relied on their clients conclusions in the past............they got burnt because of it and have tightened things up.

Seems to me the only thing they really need to authenticate is if it's a real cabinet photo or not? Anything else should qualify for an additional service I would think?

[barrysloate]

If I were them I wouldn't do photo i.d. at all. It would be at best only a tiny part of their business, and would create so many problems. They would need to hire a separate expert whose only job was to identify and authenticate photographs, and no matter what verdict they came up with they would never achieve consensus on every image. The headaches would be greater than the rewards.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by bmarlowe1

So - what are their standards? I submit that they don't have any. How do you sell an authentication service for which you have no articulable standards?

That's a good question - maybe they will come on and answer.

[drc]

Looks as if he's wearing the same jersey as in the card.

Would it be acceptable for SGC to simply label it as an original Carl Horner photo without the identity of the player?

[prewarsports]

Good Call David

I think it is the same sitting just with and without his hat. If you look at how the bottons sit on both photos as well as how the point of the cloth at the top button is not tucked under the collar etc., I think it is not only a photo ID match but it could be one of those uniform matches they do in auctions to pinpoint a jersey to a certain year etc. I cant image a photo existing with more circumstantial evidence from 1903.

Rhys

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by drc

Would it be acceptable for SGC to simply label it as an original Carl Horner photo without the identity of the player?

Not for me it wouldn't, a big part of the reason I want it slabbed is for easy player identification.

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all the input!!!