Opening price vs (known) reserve Poll

HRBAKER · #1 06-30-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenAge50s

Jeff---

That's true, but if you have a Reserve that's in line w/ current values you are just protecting yourself from someone literally stealing a card from you by lowball bidding--and I'm not including those ridiculous 4x-6x BV Sellers.

Or you are protecting yourself from "current values."

In some instances really.

GoldenAge50s · #2 06-30-2010, 01:35 PM

Well, Reserve or no Reserve, low min or start @ what you expect, I think a Seller builds his reputation on many things, among them is not asking Strasburg prices if you only have a t206 Wagner to offer!

Buyers get to know how you operate if they give you a chance, and I value quality along w/ reasonable pricing as my way of doing business.

HRBAKER · #3 06-30-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenAge50s

Well, Reserve or no Reserve, low min or start @ what you expect, I think a Seller builds his reputation on many things, among them is not asking Strasburg prices if you only have a t206 Wagner to offer!

Buyers get to know how you operate if they give you a chance, and I value quality along w/ reasonable pricing as my way of doing business.

Agreed. My comments were of a general nature. Now is a "risky" time to absolute auction a lot of things and not so others. My point was that some sellers (as is their right) don't want to acknowledge that "current value" may not be what they think it is.

GoldenAge50s · #4 06-30-2010, 02:32 PM

We are on the same page! Thanks for your comments!

steve B · #5 06-30-2010, 03:33 PM

I'm more likely to bid on a no reserve auction. I know if I'm the high bidder I'll win it.

But I also bid on auctions where there's a reserve, either stated or hidden.
If it's stated, I just have to decide if I want to pay that much. Pretty easy, protects the seller, and gives me an idea wether I'm going to be close to affording it. If the reserve isn't stated, and I'm really interested, I'll ask what it is. Sometimes The seller will say what the reserve is if asked. I've sold maybe 5-6 things with a reserve over 10+ years. I don't always state the reserve, but will if asked. All but two of my reserves were laughably low, one ended up being 1/6 of the final selling price. The two I was too high on I ended up discussing the price with people that eventually bought the items.
One convinced me I was too high by about half, the other I had a lot of profit, the price was ok and the collection it went into was a great match.
(The buyer taught a college program on the books topic)

What I don't get is the sellers that refuse to state the reserve even when asked. Usually they say it's to "be fair to the other bidders" which makes no sense to me. And usually I won't bother bidding. If they say it's just their policy to not reveal reserves, I may bid, but usually bid less than I might if I knew the reserve.

Of course on Ebay there's sneaky ways of finding out. I've never done it, but it's possible to have a friend place a very large bid which goes immediately to the reserve, then retract it. Pretty slimy, and I've never wanted anything badly enough to resort to that.

Steve B

3-2-count · #6 06-30-2010, 03:35 PM

I voted, # 1 and #2 are about the same for me. I have no problem bidding on an item if I know what the reserve is .
If it's placed higher than what I think the cards worth I just don't bid. Pretty simple........

botn · #7 06-30-2010, 06:27 PM

As Barry stated due to the economic environment you cannot expect all consignors or sellers to willingly list items in the auction format without reserves. I think we are going to see a lot more measures taken to offer some protection to those whose material is being offered up. It takes at least two interested parties to make an auction successful to bring the item to current full market value and right now you cannot count on having two interested parties willing to do that. If one person thinks something is worth $1,000 and has the means and others who are interested have more limited means and can only take the item up to $600, what is the item worth? If you are the buyer you say the next increment over $600 but if you are the seller and you have an interested buyer are you not entitled to get the $1,000?

That said I have no trouble participating in an auction with high opening bid or one which employs reserves (disclosed or not). I think it is kind of foolish to be turned off from bidding in an auction with an unknown reserve. The very act of bidding in an auction where you do not know who your competition is carries with it the same concept of a hidden reserve. You do not know who you are bidding against and what level it is they are willing to go to. We have seen countless times where an item sells for far more than we "think" it is worth. The result can be the same as what we perceive as a high hidden reserve. The value of an item is not necessarily the same to all interested parties. In the example above I would have no problem being the bidder who paid the $1,000 for the item since getting the item is what is important to me.

High opening or reserve auctions are not as appealing since many bidders interpret those mechanisms as a seller setting a fixed price and assume the seller is going to be unreasonable. The reason the auction format is so appealing to bidders is that they feel they are in control of what they pay for an item since they are bidding and setting the price. But it is not an isolated event as bidders are bidding against other interested parties whose means and interest they cannot gauge. Sure it is a free market but the result may not be any different than a seller saying I want $X for my card. Many times a bidder is willing to pay even more than a seller would be asking.

An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it at that given moment under very specific conditions. When you have more than one person participating in the pricing then you find a more accurate market value on that item. But what about when you don't? Auctions are not supposed to unfairly enrich a either a buyer or a seller but in a buyer driven market selling without reasonable reserves or reasonable higher opening bids may result in buyers being enriched to the detriment of the seller more times than not. The market is clearly unbalanced right now and the reserves or high opening bids create equilibrium as long as those who are setting them are reasonable.

Leon · #8 06-30-2010, 06:45 PM

Good points, Greg. You really got going on that post!! Nice one. Without quoting the whole thing here is a part I will comment on.

"The reason the auction format is so appealing to bidders is that they feel they are in control of what they pay for an item since they are bidding and setting the price. But it is not an isolated event as bidders are bidding against other interested parties whose means and interest they cannot gauge."

For me, the appeal of an auction is that I KNOW the item will be sold. As for a known reserve at least I know what I am shooting at. For an unknown reserve auction, experience tells me that many times those prices are set at unreasonable levels, at least to me, and I won't participate. I know there are some others that feel the way I do and some that don't. It's what makes the world go around. Intersesting debate so far. Also, sometime in the future I will probably do a poll and see what SELLERS prefer, since this one was primarily aimed at buyers.

Thanks to everyone who has put in their 2 cents so far. Interesting topic. regards

Matthew H · #9 06-30-2010, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Or you are protecting yourself from "current values."

In some instances really.

There is nothing wrong with this. Auto auctions run like this all the time. It's well known that some sellers sometimes just want to see what the current market is for their car, and if it meets their reserve, then they will sell. This doesn't seem to bother anyone. My uncle bids on cars all the time, I've never heard him complain about reserves.

Alot of cards do sell for their "current value" today, some people are taking losses. I also think that some collectors are still licking their wounds from previous years and are reluctant to bid. I think this trend is temporary. I'll find as many good deals as I can, while I can, and so will everybody else.

When it comes time for people to sell all of these great deals they found during these tough times, they won't be putting reserves on their cards. They won't have to.

View Poll Results: Which type of auction would you prefer to bid in?
Auction w/opening bid as the reserve.	53	37.86%
Auction w/reserve that is made known.	11	7.86%
Auction w/reserve that is unknown.	2	1.43%
# 1 and #2 are about the same for me.	61	43.57%
I will not bid in any auction with a reserve, regardless	13	9.29%
Voters: 140. You may not vote on this poll

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