Informal Hall of Fame Opinion Poll

packs · #1 07-04-2010, 09:05 PM

There is a lot of talk about defense and how it relates to the HOF. Vizquel has the best fielding percentage of all time. Statistically, he is the best short stop to ever play the game and was still active when Ozzie retired. And remains active today. He leads or is in the top 5 All Time for most defensive catagories. I don't know why people never bring his name up as the greatest ever. He has better offensive career numbers than Smith, Mazeroski, Maranville and Pee Wee Reese.

tbob · #2 07-04-2010, 09:20 PM

Rube Marquard out, Bert Blyleven in.

bigtrain · #3 07-07-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

There is a lot of talk about defense and how it relates to the HOF. Vizquel has the best fielding percentage of all time. Statistically, he is the best short stop to ever play the game and was still active when Ozzie retired. And remains active today. He leads or is in the top 5 All Time for most defensive catagories. I don't know why people never bring his name up as the greatest ever. He has better offensive career numbers than Smith, Mazeroski, Maranville and Pee Wee Reese.

One reason his name is not brought up as greatest ever: Honus Wagner. But, no question, defensively Vizquel was as good as anybody who played the position.

Theoldprofessor · #4 07-07-2010, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by packs
There is a lot of talk about defense and how it relates to the HOF. Vizquel has the best fielding percentage of all time. Statistically, he is the best short stop to ever play the game and was still active when Ozzie retired. And remains active today. He leads or is in the top 5 All Time for most defensive catagories. I don't know why people never bring his name up as the greatest ever. He has better offensive career numbers than Smith, Mazeroski, Maranville and Pee Wee Reese.

The players listed here -- Omar Vizquel, Ozzie Smith, Rabbit Maranville and Pee Wee Reese, all played the vast majority of their careers at short. After all, that's what at issue here.

But fellas, Maz played second. Maybe some of the reason he gets no love in the forum is because fewer people know this than should.

By the way, is a ptcher primarily an offensive or a defensive player?

Misunderestimated · #5 07-07-2010, 11:43 PM

Players:

Out: Herb Pennock, Geo. Kelly, Fred Lindstrom, Pop Haines, Chick Hafey; D. Bancroft; R. Schalk

In: Ron Santo; Mark McGwire, Jack Morris; T. Simmons; Tim Raines
(also: Larkin, Alomar and Blyleven all of whom appear to be on the way in the next few yrs. )

Dead-Ball/Turn of the Century-- 19th Cent
Out: Chief Bender; Bobby Wallace; Rube Marquard; Tommy McCarthy

In: Bill Dahlen; Deacon White; Bobby Caruthers; Harry Stovey; Cal McVey

Negro Leagues/MGMT/Pioneers & Umps etc.
Out: Pompez; Posey; E. Manley; Candy Cummings; B. Kuhn; M. Bulkeley

In: Buck O'Neal; Cannonball Redding; Marvin Miller; John Beckwith (NL); H. O'Day (Ump); J. Jackson (lifetime ban expired?)

Robbie · #6 07-08-2010, 12:34 AM

Out - George Kelly.

In....Nobody has mentioned the great Tony Oliva.

tbob · #7 07-09-2010, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Out - George Kelly.

In....Nobody has mentioned the great Tony Oliva.

I will. Besides being rookie of the year and 3 batting championships, from 1964-71 he was in the top 10 in slugging percentage every single year. He was fast, a great outfielder and possessed a rifle arm. He is the poor man's Roberto Clemente. He tore up his knees but continued to play at a high rate and was twice runner up to the AL MVP and finished in the Top 10 several times.
It boggles the mind that Chick Hafey is in and Tony O is not. In a poll about 10 years ago of the top American league pitchers of the era, the majority voted Oliva as the most feared hitter in the AL in the 60's.

tbob · #8 07-09-2010, 10:48 AM

300 wins means a pitcher is a lock for Cooperstown but if you look at the body of work and how they performed in big games, I would take Jack Morris over Don Sutton any day of the week. He lead the AL in wins twice and finished 2nd twice. His stats compare almost identically with Amos Rusie, Red Ruffing, Burleigh Grimes and Jim Bunning, all HOFers. He pitched on some bad teams but was always a terror on the mound.

familytoad · #9 07-08-2010, 12:35 AM

While I probably wouldn't want to kick anyone out, there are surely a few head scratchers in the HOF.

I guess since its just for fun, I cant see how Jesse Haines was elected...check out the BBWA voting numbers, although mentioned on 12 ballots over the years, Pop's very BEST year was when he garnered 22 votes of 266 cast. Most years he was way less popular.

But then the Veteran's commitee elected him in 1970 , just 33 years after his last season...somehow he got very popular during those three decades of retirement.
His 210 wins ,with three 20 win seasons are certainly not on the same level as many of the other HOF pitchers.

So, Blyleven in, Haines out...

If we don't have to go position by position...let's put in George Van Haltren whose short career as a pitcher still yielded 40 wins. His runs scored (a very important but underrated stat in my opinion) are 35th all time!

rhettyeakley · #10 07-08-2010, 01:18 AM

One thing to keep in mind here is that of all the major sports' Hall of Fame's the BBHOF is the hardest to get into. Some people IMO have no business being in the Hall (Bulkeley, Manley, etc.) but I think the BBHOF's standards are pretty high in comparison to most HOF's and there is certainly room for more deserving people in there.

There are definitely some strange inclusions and some even stranger exclusions (ex. How is Ray Schalk in but Wally Schang is not, is it because Schalk's name is before Schang's alphabetically?

)

-Rhett

Bamacollection · #11 07-08-2010, 07:44 AM

I do not care who gets kicked out. But, Hodges should be in. Rose should be in. Maybe Rose should be banned as a manager, but not as a player. "The Best of The Best"...Pete Rose, Joe Jackson, and several of the other Black Sox...They were the best the game had to offer. Ozzie Smith definately deserves his place in the Hall. He did things on short that were just short of miraculous at the time. He reinvented the art of fielding. Everytime a ball was hit at him, you just knew something special was about to happen. His style left a permenant stamp on the game. In my mind, he changed the game. He should be there and it's crazy to think that someone who watched his play wouldn't agree.

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