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#1
07-08-2010, 09:49 AM
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Mike, good list of people that should be in. If we don't include DH's for Hall consideration, then we should do away with that position all together. As for Buck O'neil, the Hall knows it blew it which is why they have enshrined him with the lifetime achievement award which is named after him. Much like the Hall's award for writers and broadcasters, many may feel like they are not "hall of famers" but I do...it's just a different wing.
As for Marvin Miller...totally political. He belongs in the Hall just as much as any owner or GM that ever got in. As a side note to the post about Bill James's list of players that don't belong...I went back and compared Jim Bottomley with Tony Perez...Bottomley played 7 fewer seasons but had only about 200 less RBI's and 30 points higher in batting average, led the league in HR's once and RBI's twice...and was MVP once. Tony never led the league or was mvp..he did have more homeruns, but again, in 7 more seasons. Not sure why James would want to take out Bottomley. 
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#3
07-08-2010, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
I don't think Bottomley should be out either.... he definitely belongs. But let's remember there's more to it than just stats.... Perez was the greatest clutch hitter of his time, and there were no stats for that. Nobody could deliver the clutch 2 out hit like Perez. Sparky Anderson later admitted that Perez was the heart and soul of the Big Red Machine Chapionship teams, and the Reds of that era never won anything again after Tony was traded. Also... Perez played in an era when pitching was more dominant. Just as hitting stats were greatly inflated during the late '90s and early 2000s, offensive statistics were significantly lower during the 60s/70s. This reinforces the greatness of other 60s/70s stars as well (Aaron, Clemente, Mays, McCovey, Cepeda, Schmidt, Robinson, Kaline, Killebrew, Yaz, to name just a few). Last edited by perezfan; 07-08-2010 at 12:53 PM.
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#4
07-08-2010, 01:16 PM
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If you go by "games played" (and what else would it be?), we already have a DH in the Hall of Fame. His name is Paul Molitor.
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#5
07-08-2010, 02:06 PM
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I agree with you 100 percent Perezfan. I wasn't trying to knock Tony...heck, I saw him play most of his career and know what a great player he was, I was just trying to give some love for Sunny Jim. You bring up a good point though, there are no stats for clutch hits, clutch wins, etc. For all we know, Jesse Haines was a clutch pitcher, Chick Hafey a clutch hitter, etc. That's why I say it's pretty hard to say a player should not be in the Hall. Where it really gets tough is when one player is in and then another (with similar stats) is not.
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