1919 Reds Pennant

[baseballart]

Mark

I have no expertise in pennants (and in little else, for that matter). One point on the pennant is that the auctioneer was also offering a beat up copy of Ellard's Baseball in Cincinnati, 1908. This probably doesn't amount to much, but could be an indication they came from a collection of that era (conversely, I guess they could have come from someone who purchased both in 1980).

Edited to add: looking at that Babe Ruth pennant would certainly give me pause before I bid on the Reds one.

Max

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by baseballart

Mark

I have no expertise in pennants (and in little else, for that matter). One point on the pennant is that the auctioneer was also offering a beat up copy of Ellard's Baseball in Cincinnati, 1908. This probably doesn't amount to much, but could be an indication they came from a collection of that era (conversely, I guess they could have come from someone who purchased both in 1980).

Edited to add: looking at that Babe Ruth pennant would certainly give me pause before I bid on the Reds one.

Max

That is a positive sign... but not iron-clad evidence of authenticity, as you say. Could just be consigned from a Reds collector who bought the pennant on faith...

If the 1919 Reds Pennant is good, then someone should jump on that Ruth Pennant (a real bargain by comparison!)

[murphusa]

the Yankees did not have numbers on their 1928 Uniforms

[GoldenAge50s]

Good catch Murph, and I think the Ruth pennant is not even close to the Cincy pennant in finished quality, however crude that the Cincy is.

[rhettyeakley]

They both look terrible and artificial to me. It looks like the stencilling was done yesterday and the wear is a little over the top. Red flags all over the place. I hope nobody here paid too much for that Reds pennant.
-Rhett

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by GoldenAge50s

Good catch Murph, and I think the Ruth pennant is not even close to the Cincy pennant in finished quality, however crude that the Cincy is.

Regarding the Ruth and the 1919 Reds Pennants... Look closer...

The overall style of the pennants, the shape of both (stubby- not elongated), the thin felt, the stenciled font style (every letter matches up), the stars, and even the red felt strip on the left side are all the same. When have you ever seen other pennants like this with identical font and stenciled stars, combined with a poorly applied central image (that is neither stenciled or screened on like the remainder of the pennant).

If you propped up the Ruth Pennant (at a more direct angle to the camera), the shape would be identical to the 1919 Reds. It is laying flatter in the photo, thus skewing the shape a bit. Other known pennants of the era are more elongated than these matching examples. Look at the stenciled lettering. The "H" is crossed 3/4 towards the top on both examples. The "R"s are identical. So are the "N"s and the "A"s and the "E"s... all identical in style.

Now that Murphusa has exposed the 1928 Ruth as being a fake/fantasy piece (based on the "3" on his back)... I do not envy the guy who spent over $3K on the 1919 Reds Pennant. I would be extremely nervous, as these two pennants are far too similar not to be related.

And what are the odds that both would pop up on ebay around the same time? In the past 20 years, why have no others (of this distinct style) ever been featured in ANY of the major Catalogue Auctions? Way too coincidental for my taste...

If the winning bidder of the Reds Pennant is reading this, you might want to file a dispute before it's too late. Ebay has an excellent new Buyer Protection Program that can effectively protect you.

Hope this is helpful.

[ctownboy]

Honestly, how HARD is it to just sew something half assed, put some ink stamps on it and let it sit in the sun and fade for a while?

Both my Grand Mother and my Mother can sew and I think they could replicate these pieces fairly easily. Just find some old material, go to an art store and buy some ink stamps, assemble quickly, set in sun for a couple of weeks and, voila, instant "folk art".

If I knew they wouldn't be racked with guilt for doing so, I might suggest they try this and see how much they could supplement their monthly income.....

David

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

Honestly, how HARD is it to just sew something half assed, put some ink stamps on it and let it sit in the sun and fade for a while?

Both my Grand Mother and my Mother can sew and I think they could replicate these pieces fairly easily. Just find some old material, go to an art store and buy some ink stamps, assemble quickly, set in sun for a couple of weeks and, voila, instant "folk art".

If I knew they wouldn't be racked with guilt for doing so, I might suggest they try this and see how much they could supplement their monthly income.....

David

Completely agree... too bad some people don't feel that type of guilt, or share those morals. Here's an authentic example that cannot so easily be replicated by "Grandma"...

[gratefuldog3]

Wow, All I can say is where the hell were you guys before the auction ended? I haven't even opened the package yet. I'm still working. I want you to know that I honestly believe the seller is an honest person who has made a large mistake. I too made a bad call... I guess?? If it was as advertised, I would have paid more. What can I say? F@*^@CK me!! I'm making a phone call as soon as I get home. What a disappointment...Scott

[gratefuldog3]

Me again, I just got home from a perfect day of hell at work to find three missed calls from the seller. As I was listening to my messages, he called again. He has read the thread and is as concerned as I am. Being a stand up guy he has already refunded my Paypal account, and wants me to open the package and take a peek. He's giving me the time I need to make a logical decision.Really, what else could I ask for? It would be great if all the bad talk about this guy would stop. He has been nothing but reasonable from the beginning. He even refused to end the auction early! I tried and I know one of you who have posted here offered him 1800.00 to do the same. Which I'm confused by, for obvious reasons. I do appreciate this thread. It's just a shame it didn't start until after I dropped the bomb. Oh well, no harm done. In review, seller did the right thing. I'm glad that for once my hunch in a person was correct.

[baseballart]

Originally Posted by baseballart

Mark

I have no expertise in pennants (and in little else, for that matter). One point on the pennant is that the auctioneer was also offering a beat up copy of Ellard's Baseball in Cincinnati, 1908. This probably doesn't amount to much, but could be an indication they came from a collection of that era (conversely, I guess they could have come from someone who purchased both in 1980).

Edited to add: looking at that Babe Ruth pennant would certainly give me pause before I bid on the Reds one.

Max

Well, at least the seller's 1908 Baseball in Cincinnati was real.

Pretty frightening with these pennants. When viewed together, it's pretty clear they are not vintage.

I just hope people stay away from artificially aged reproductions of baseball books