Philly Show this weekend....see you there ?

[danc]

I was there Friday and it was DEAD. Pockets of the room missing with regular dealers. Hunt over in the corner with no one around. Spaced out somewhat weird to make it appear grander. Saturday, it picked up some. Overpriced cards (one guy there, out of his mind and you can tell he was sick of people asking the price and groaning in silence) with the police making appearences as items were stolen from tables. Watched a handful of people pay $70 to meet Joe Blanton and basically made the seven hour trek to see Phil, Graig and Doug and try and fill a few holes, which I did. Will skip December and hopefully by 2011, Hunt figures out how to bring life to this show as Friday defines the word "pathetic". How much longer can this grand show survive?

DanC

[judsonhamlin]

I have always liked the Friday after work time slot. First, I felt like I was getting first crack at the vintage cards (and was even a dues-paying EPSCC member for a while to get in at 400) and it was crowded but manageable. Now, with kids' sports and other weekend obligations, Friday is the best option for me for other reasons. But the last few shows dating back to Reading have been pretty dead on Friday, so I'm not sure it makes a great deal of sense to keep it open. Maybe by cutting it back to two days, Hunt can reduce the rental cost and charge less to the dealers for tables, which might stimulate more interest and reinvigorate the show.

[danmckee]

I stopped doing this show completely, I won't even attend it. I was a regular at Fort Washington and then Reading and Dad did the old Willow Grove shows before that. I think the show has been ruined completely. I like David but I think he tried to bleed his dealers to get the money back that he paid Bob for the rights to the show. The gun show that rents the EXACT same space at the EXACT same time charges their dealers $60 a table. I think David charges $550. I had a VIP table at first so I was paying $1300 which is National money. The show was terrible both times for me. I crushed at Reading. When they sent the poll out to add a 3rd Christmas show I was the first one to respond NO! Then a few MORONS chimed in that they would love to have a 3rd show. Everyone I talk to says it is completely DEAD, no customers, limited dealers etc.. I say bag it and come down to Chantilly and set up and shop with me and Roger Neufeldt who also made the immediate transition. We are working at building the Chantilly show back up to the vintage power house it once was in the late 1980s. Dan.

P.S. Ted Z, we welcome you to Chantilly brother!

[blades3]

I missed Friday, but was there for much of Saturday and Sunday. That front area of the show is absolutely dead. The rest of the show wasn't much busier. I was there in Dec. though and this show was phenomenal compared to the 10 people who attended in Dec. 2009 (mild exaggeration). Some dealers did horrible, but some were very happy with the show. I ran around the area to get consignments, including a Saturday trip to Baltimore and a Sunday trip to Staten Island, and talked with a lot of my dealer friends, like Phil Marks, Kevin Keating, Kip Ingle, Dick Gordon, etc. so it was worth the trip for me, but not because of the show. McAvoy and Henderson have now dropped this event too and I noticed others scaling back. You really gotta wonder what the future of this one holds.

[Rob D.]

Ted,

Looking forward to reading your thoughts regarding the most recent show.

Thanks.

[tedzan]

I'll first preface my comments by saying that I have continuously set-up at the Philly Show since 1981. It has been a
great experience; and, especially with respect to all the great people I have become friends with in this hobby. First
and foremost, I'm a collector. I do like to "wheel & deal" vintage cardboard (sports and non-sports) and the 28 years
in Willow Grove, Ft. Washington, and Reading have been tremendous.

The Valley Forge show started off slow 1 1/2 years ago. It was slowly improving in terms of attendance and sales, as
was evident in last March's show. However, the consensus of opinion is that last week's show was very disappointing.
Here are several external factors that I attribute this to (not listed in any order)......

Ebay
Numerous Auctions
Current Economic woes in this country
Baltimore National

The people running this show have to realize that a "hi-priced autograph show" does not necessarily translate into a
good dealer--customer show. Furthermore, we have observed that at least 24 of the Hi-calibre, veteran vintage card
dealers (e.g., Dan McKee, Irv Lerner, Terry Knouse, Roger Neufeldt, Bill McAvoy, Ron Barrett, etc., etc.) are no longer
setting up at this show. The attrition rate of these quality dealers increases with each show. This bodes very poor for
the future success of this show.

It appears to me that major BB card shows will eventually go the way as BB card shops of the 1980's & '90s went. Of
course the National will remain....and then, my suggestion to the National promoters would be to make the National a
semi-annual event. A Spring (April) show permanently in Baltimore. And, a Fall event (Sept) that floats between the
West Coast, Chicago and Cleveland.

Just my thoughts.


Hey Dan McKee......I'll give Chantilly some serious consideration.

TED Z

[Leon]

Scott and I are talking about setting up at Chantilly. The next show seems to be in about 2 weeks, which is kind of short notice, and too close to our current auction ending. I am looking forward to the one after that, and depending on some other things that go on, Scott or I (B and L Auctions) will probably set up at it. best regards

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I'll first preface my comments by saying that I have continuously set-up at the Philly Show since 1981. It has been a
great experience; and, especially with respect to all the great people I have become friends with in this hobby. First
and foremost, I'm a collector. I do like to "wheel & deal" vintage cardboard (sports and non-sports) and the 28 years
in Willow Grove, Ft. Washington, and Reading have been tremendous.

The Valley Forge show started off slow 1 1/2 years ago. It was slowly improving in terms of attendance and sales, as
was evident in last March's show. However, the consensus of opinion is that last week's show was very disappointing.
Here are several external factors that I attribute this to (not listed in any order)......

Ebay
Numerous Auctions
Current Economic woes in this country
Baltimore National

The people running this show have to realize that a "hi-priced autograph show" does not necessarily translate into a
good dealer--customer show. Furthermore, we have observed that at least 24 of the Hi-calibre, veteran vintage card
dealers (e.g., Dan McKee, Irv Lerner, Terry Knouse, Roger Neufeldt, Bill McAvoy, Ron Barrett, etc., etc.) are no longer
setting up at this show. The attrition rate of these quality dealers increases with each show. This bodes very poor for
the future success of this show.

It appears to me that major BB card shows will eventually go the way as BB card shops of the 1980's & '90s went. Of
course the National will remain....and then, my suggestion to the National promoters would be to make the National a
semi-annual event. A Spring (April) show permanently in Baltimore. And, a Fall event (Sept) that floats between the
West Coast, Chicago and Cleveland.

Just my thoughts.


Hey Dan McKee......I'll give Chantilly some serious consideration.

TED Z

I have to disagree on a few of Ted's points.

First Ebay isn't new, its been around 10+ years so I don't think it's impact is any different now as it was 2 or 5 years ago. Sure it has an impact but I don't think it varies from year to year.

Second, I think auctions to drain quality material from the sale floor. If you wanted to buy say an E90 or CJ Joe Jackson you would have to buy one in an auction as they are almost never for sale. I think this is the case with any "hot" higher end card.

Third, the Current Economic woes in this country have impacted everything but I have noticed things are better now then a year or six months ago, yet it seems this show was worse then the last.

Forth, Baltimore National, to me it had no impact. Perhaps people can't recover in a few months but perhaps it was more of an issue of the product and the prices rather then the national being close.

IMO there is a few simple things they can do to attract more customers and that is ADVERTISE!!! Plain and simple. They do not do anything locally on the sports radio station. It is said when I hear about the gun show and the home show but not the sports card show.

There were a lot of empty spaces on Friday which is a bad sign, however I did notice a few people that said they would never come back sitting there behind a table.

IMO the table price isn't the biggest problem it is a simple fact that many people come get a signature and leave. Plus the people they bring in to sign are so expensive that it drains a ton of cash out of the room. I think you would be better off with lower priced autographs rather they the hot new thing.

I had talked to both Paul and Sheryl about my concerns in the past but I never saw any change.

Leon- They did call me about doing the show when I didn't sign up so it might be worth another try.

James G

[byrone]

Originally Posted by tedzan

It appears to me that major BB card shows will eventually go the way as BB card shops of the 1980's & '90s went. Of
course the National will remain....and then, my suggestion to the National promoters would be to make the National a
semi-annual event. A Spring (April) show permanently in Baltimore. And, a Fall event (Sept) that floats between the
West Coast, Chicago and Cleveland.

Just my thoughts.


Hey Dan McKee......I'll give Chantilly some serious consideration.

TED Z

I was at the Baltimore National and thought it was very good.

Was it good enough for dealers to the extent that they might want to make it a permanent host?