Do you think the National should be expanded to twice a year ?

[tedzan]

Regarding this......
"......having two Nationals a year would cheapen the product."

History, during the GROWTH years (1970's to 1990's), of major BB card shows totally contradicts such an absurdity.

For example. the Philly Show started as an annual event in Willow Grove, PA in 1975. Then it was expanded to a March and September show.
Bob Schmierer expanded it to 3 times a year in 1988. And, when it moved to a larger facility (Ft. Washington) in 1993, it was expanded to 4
shows a year. Each of these expansions increased the attendance and improved the quality of this show. The same can be said for several
other shows across the country in that time period.

However, for various and sundry factors, we are no longer in a GROWTH trend in this hobby. Having the National twice a year may introduce
some new excitement into the hobby, and reverse this trend.


KEVIN

This is what I am suggesting here, the Baltimore venue would be a permanent annual East coast Show, while Chicago, and California shows
would alternate.



TED Z

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by tedzan

History, during the GROWTH years (1970's to 1990's), of major BB card shows totally contradicts such an absurdity.



TED Z

Ted,

If it's such an absurd statement, then why weren't there two Nationals during the GROWTH years? Seems like that would have been a prime time to try such an experiment.

Maybe fixing the failing shows is a solution rather than breaking one of the few shows that flourishes. I'm not sure how doubling the pinnacle event of the hobby would "introduce some new excitement into the hobby." That seems like a throwaway line to me, i.e. something that sounds good but really has no basis of fact.

Again, part of the allure of the National is that it's an annual event. Take away that aspect of it, and you take away part of the allure. Pretty simple concept, and not that absurd at all, when you really consider it.

[barrysloate]

The Philadelphia show expanded from twice a year to four times a year during a period of strong growth in the hobby. Today's hobby appears to be in attrition, with the baby boomer generation getting older. It may not be a good time to think expansion. It's in fact possible that by having fewer shows, the ones that remain will be stronger.

And I'm just speculating, as I have not attended a show in over ten years.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

The Philadelphia show expanded from twice a year to four times a year during a period of strong growth in the hobby. Today's hobby appears to be in attrition, with the baby boomer generation getting older. It may not be a good time to think expansion. It's in fact possible that by having fewer shows, the ones that remain will be stronger.

And I'm just speculating, as I have not attended a show in over ten years.

That's a key point I forgot to mention, Barry. Shows expanded when it was a GROWTH period. To conveniently omit that key fact when trying to make a case for two Nationals during a period of non-GROWTH, well, it just seems ... absurd.

[Tony Gordon]

While I didn't make it out to Baltimore, I talked to several Chicago dealers who relayed that sales were just okay. The location where their sales are highest is Cleveland. Naturally, I don't mind having the National in my backyard but I think dealers are shortchanged when the show is in Chicago because the promoters do a lousy job at local advertising. The Chicago Sun-Times newspaper is on life support and advertising a show in it is a wasted effort. I believe advertising on the two Chicago sports radio channels and on local cable television would increase attendance significantly.

[Leon]

First of all I don't think it's absurd to talk about 2 shows cheapening the product. If nothing else, it's a good discussion either way, but to call it absurd is absurd in itself, imo. Nothing personal Ted. I just don't think it's an absurd recommendation either way.

For me, and maybe not too many others, I would love to have 2 giant, great shows to go to in one year. I would gladly attend both. I realize I very well might be in the minority though. I would bet 2 cents this whole discussion is how REA feels on the subject of 1 vs 2 (auctions a yr). It would potentially water down the "event". I think this is a great topic and one that is easily debated on both sides. I certainly see good points for having one or two shows a year. regards

[E93]

While I would enjoy two Nationals a year if I could make the time, the reality is I probably could not. I am imagining many are in the same boat. So while it would be fun in theory, I, like others here, would worry about the weakening of the National. If a sizable percentage of regular National attendees only went to one of the two, then it would make both shows not as good. And if they both were weaker, it might mean that they both eventually lose steam. I enjoy the National so much because it is the hobby event that so many of my hobby friends try to make it to every year. I fear diluting that by having two.
JimB

[Doug]

If they had an eastern national and a western national it might give more people a chance to go that otherwise don't want to travel cross country.

[4815162342]

Q: Why is there only one National a year?

A: Wives.

[RiverOnFire]

The National doesn't need to expand into two shows. One show once a year is fine.

What needs to be done is add more flair to the show. I'm 23 years old and collect various stuff both vintage and modern. Cards, pennants, odd ball items, I love it all. But even I get bored eventually with the show. The autograph area is rubbish. It needs to be done up and add more dynamic.

Why can't all the Sports Hall of Fames have small traveling exhibits on display? How could would it be to go and learn about any of the sports long fabled histories and then be able to buy relics of that time all in the same building?

Personally, I (and I'm sure most of you) like the hunt and thrill of trying to find that certain *something*. The IX Center (Cle) and the Chicago location both have vast parking lots for use. Maybe allow for a "flea market" outside that flows into the building.

What would be real cool but I think logistics would kill the idea, but have the National at one location in a city, and then smaller shows around the city throughout that week to drum up interest for the National itself. It'd be similar to how cities have concerts at different venues during a weekend but the shows are all intertwined into one main event.

[Jewish-collector]

What they could do is have an east coast city National in the spring and a west coast city National in the fall (or vice versa). And, then have a midwest coast city (probably Chicago and/or Cleveland) replace one of the coast Nationals the following year like so...

Spring 2011 East coast city National
Fall 2011 West coast city National

Spring 2012 Midwest coast city National (to replace the East)
Fall 2012 West coast city National

Spring 2013 East coast city National
Fall 2013 Midwest coast city National (to replace the West)

and so on.....

[David W]

I live in Indiana, but an East/West thing might work.

I wouldn't go to the West coast, but go to the Chicago and Cleveland Nationals.

I'm sure there are a lot of West Coasters who don't go if it is out East.

[bijoem]

I voted no.

While I would personally love to go to a 'National' every month (if I was able to) - I think if The National took place more than once per year, many or most collectors and dealers would pick which 'National' they could go to each year.

The result would be two watered down shows in the year as opposed to one as-good-as-it-gets event per year.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Doug

If they had an eastern national and a western national it might give more people a chance to go that otherwise don't want to travel cross country.

This is a key point. I would attend twice as many Nationals if it ever came back to California, Las Vegas, Seattle, Portland, Phoenix or even Denver. I am sure that many other potential attendees (West of the Mississippi) who currently skip it would attend more as well.

So you might lose a few East Coast/Midwest people, but you would gain many others. That's my admittedly biased left coast viewpoint.

[danc]

No.

I'm on team Rob.

Baltimore was nice, mostly because it wasn't Cleveland. What made the National great back then were the many collectible avenues and the unpredictable nature of the show that surrounded the current card craze (at the time) which ceases to exist. And eBay and auction houses with their thick catalogs. IMO, there is a reason why there are so few card shows today.

I have been going to Willow Grove (now the Hunt debacle) since 1988 and the last show was a disgrace of sorts, and it doesn't appear that it will ever be what that great show once was. If there were no autograph guests, would anyone come? After you pay $80 for Schilling, will you have any money left over to buy and if you are paying that for him, do you care about vintage cards and memorabilia anyways?

I think I will stick to the one National per year.

DanC