Heritage Auction

HRBAKER · #1 10-06-2010, 10:31 AM

PSA/DNA and JSA is just an opinion too.

ss · #2 10-06-2010, 02:55 PM

so folks can let you know their opinion.

gordonanalytic · #3 10-06-2010, 04:25 PM

When I get the ball back from Heritage. It should be this week.
These people can pick and choose who they want to do business with... but the arrogance is astounding.

gordonanalytic · #4 10-06-2010, 04:26 PM

Also they blocked my IP address so that I cannot log onto their website anymore

HRBAKER · #5 10-06-2010, 04:29 PM

There's auction houses aplenty, no reason to put up with this. I am sorry this happened. How exactly did you escalate this? Thanks for bringing it to our attention, not sure if that qualifies for escalation.

HRBAKER · #6 10-06-2010, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordonanalytic

Also they blocked my IP address so that I cannot log onto their website anymore

They've taken their ball and gone home.

DJR · #7 10-06-2010, 04:41 PM

.

Heritage Sports · #8 10-06-2010, 06:32 PM

The official Heritage policy is to avoid being dragged in to protracted bulletin board conflicts, but, just this once, we�ll dispense with tradition. I�ll try to keep it brief and hopefully clarify a few of the main issues here.

First, to address the original poster�s comments, there are a few facts which were rather conveniently left out of his commentary. We have counted his emails to Heritage over the past six months. The total: over 120, just to the director of the Sports department alone. We obviously cannot count the telephone calls during this time, but it�s in the dozens. Once he began to harass our executive team, which oversees over $600 million in annual sales, we made a simple business decision that we couldn�t afford to maintain the relationship. Think about it�we have over half a million registered members. Imagine if every one of them was such a drain on resources. The endless emails and phone calls to our Chairman on the topic the original poster discusses represented the final straw, not the cause. There have been other issues with this client as well, but there is no need to elaborate to the public on this.

We�re more troubled, however, by the ongoing mischaracterization of Heritage house bids as shill bidding, as it is far more potentially harmful than one disgruntled client with an abundance of free time. The distinction is so clear to us, and to most people within the hobby, that perhaps we have failed to spell it out in its simplest terms. So, if you�ll allow me, here is the difference between Heritage�s policy of placing house bids, and the illegal practice of shill bidding:

1) Placing house bids in one�s own auction. This is what Heritage does. We place bids on material at the price we would be willing to pay if someone came up to our table at a card show wanting to sell. This is done a week before the auction closes, long before the competitive final bidding has even begun. We bid in our competitors� auctions as well. We win very little because we only bid wholesale prices.

2) Shill bidding. This is done to intentionally raise the bid price on consigned lots, and done with no interest in actually buying the lot. It is done after serious bidding has begun, not before. Heritage does not do this. Again, we place no bids in the final week of the auction, and we never have any knowledge of what the left/absentee bids are.

3) House owned items. Heritage does own some of the material in our auctions, typically less than 10% of the material. If Heritage places a bid on an item that Heritage owns, then it shows up as a reserve on the item, not a bid.

Everybody loves a scandal, we understand, but putting a $1700 bid on a $4000 Babe Ruth autograph a week before an auction closes just isn�t going to qualify. Please don�t hesitate to ask questions if this distinction isn�t as simple as most people believe it is.

glchen · #9 10-06-2010, 07:05 PM

I don't think Heritage has addressed the question on whether an employee at Heritage guaranteed authentication on a ball on ebay.

Second, the house bids are really shady. I bid frequently at Heritage, and I never knew about this. To me, this is still shill bidding. They should change this to a reserve price if they wanted to be in the clear.

Heritage used to be in the top tier of auction houses in my opinion, especially because of their volume and their great website, which is probably the best of all auction houses. They've dropped to the 2nd or 3rd tier now.

oriolesbb6 · #10 10-06-2010, 07:41 PM

I would also like the issue addressed on the note or lack there of? Secondly, how many emails are appropriate when a customer has questions or concerns? Lastly, agreed-reserve the items-in house bidding represents a touchy subject-if you are pushing an item up to a certain amount then isn't that intentionally running up an item-whether at the beginning or end of an auction.........

gordonanalytic · #11 10-08-2010, 09:43 PM

I think that it would be best to avoid Heritage altogether. The arrogance of the employees is shocking. There are too many other decent auction houses, and we should give the alternatives our business. The fact that one of their legends in the business, Mike Gutierrez had his "opinion" on a Mickey Mantle signature contradicted by PSA, the people he used to work for, should be embarrasing to the company. If he can't get that right then why deal with them. Where is the accountability?

PS.... A cyber-attack? A bit of hyperbole. Some of my more creative employees in IT came up with interesting ideas to share with the folks at Heritage.

120 emails. Sounds like excellent communication. How many were for consignments?

slidekellyslide · #12 10-06-2010, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritage Sports

Everybody loves a scandal, we understand, but putting a $1700 bid on a $4000 Babe Ruth autograph a week before an auction closes just isn�t going to qualify. Please don�t hesitate to ask questions if this distinction isn�t as simple as most people believe it is.

Then why do it at all? This rule continues to confuse and anger people so I'm not sure why you don't just start the Ruth auto at $1700 and you don't have to worry about accusations of shilling.

DJR · #13 10-06-2010, 10:15 PM

.

thekingofclout · #14 10-06-2010, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritage Sports

The distinction is so clear to us, and to most people within the hobby, that perhaps we have failed to spell it out in its simplest terms. So, if you’ll allow me, here is the difference between Heritage’s policy of placing house bids, and the illegal practice of shill bidding:

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel the blatant condescending tone in this statement?

DJR · #15 10-08-2010, 05:44 PM

.

3and2 · #16 10-08-2010, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritage Sports

Everybody loves a scandal, we understand, but putting a $1700 bid on a $4000 Babe Ruth autograph a week before an auction closes just isn�t going to qualify. Please don�t hesitate to ask questions if this distinction isn�t as simple as most people believe it is.

I do appreciate Heritage being specific in how they bid on items during auctions, however, I don't fully understand the reason for them to do this. If Heritage didn't bid on the Babe Ruth item ($1700) the week prior, then what would it sell for? $2500, $3,000..how much do they think?

Perhaps, Heritage feels bidders need a little push to keep the bidding going, by placing a few bids here and there. If this is the case I really don't think that is fair to the other bidders. I know that auction houses just can't let an item go below market value, however, If your auctioning premium items then it will realize a premium price.

Basically, heritage bidding on the items seems disrespectful to the collector. I'd be interested to hear what they have to say...

calvindog · #17 10-08-2010, 07:26 PM

I don't like what Heritage does with their bidding on lots but it's open and transparent and legal. In the scheme of things, this is as good as it gets in the auction world. I do think that the condescending tone is really uncalled for, however. Why are auctioneers so condescending? You'd think they'd just invented the AIDS vaccine or something.

David Atkatz · #18 10-08-2010, 07:27 PM

I'm not condoning Heritage's actions, but I think you guys are misinterpreting. HA is not trying to "bid the item up" for the consignor; rather they're hoping to win an item or two for themselves at a low price. What have they to loose? Place a lowball bid on a large number of pieces, and perhaps one will be overlooked and they'll win. That's why they place bids in their competitors' auctions as well.

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