Grading discussion- Revolutionizing :) the hobby...

benjulmag · #1 11-18-2010, 12:56 PM

Interesting discussion. Thank you Leon for initiating it.

In deciding what factors to consider when grading blank-backed photographic cards, one should first ask what is the purpose of third-party grading. The answer to that question will determine what factors should be considered in assigning a grade to a blank-backed photographic card.

In my view, the purpose of third-party grading is to provide an objective assessment of how the market will value the card. The higher the value the market will put on the card, the higher should be the grade. Based on this purpose to third party grading, it seems irrational then to ignore factors the market will take into account in assigning value and to give great weight to factors the market cares little about. Perhaps the single most important factor the market takes into account in valuing a photographic card is photo quality. Who wouldn't prefer a photo with good definition and contrast to one that is light and blurry? So photo contrast certainly should be scrutinized as strongly as sharpness of corners, and points awarded to cards with exceptionally outstanding images, and taken away from those cards with poor photo quality. As to back damage, while not irrelevant, it is not nearly as important as photo quality because being blank-backed, there is no information or content being impacted. So whatever defects a card's verso might have, I do not feel it should have a material impact on the grade. I just don't believe the market will penalize too greatly a blank-backed card with a glue stain on the verso.

The end result is that when all relevant factors are considered and given proper weight, a card will receive a grade that will reflect its value in the market. 8's will go for more than 7's. We will not have what exists now when a 4 could sell for more than a 7. That is ludicrous, and the fact that that situation exists cannot present a more compelling argument that grading companies need to reassess the factors they consider when grading blank-backed photographic cards.

Rickyy · #2 11-19-2010, 01:48 AM

Count me in among those that are flummoxed when the photo quality is there but the grade is downgraded when the back has damage even though their is no image...I have an OJ that has a faded photo on the front with clean back that grades higher than an Exhibit card with clean image but a paper loss on the back...a friend who is a non collector looked at them and asked me why one the grades were lower on the better looking one...I couldn't adequately explain...

buymycards · #3 11-19-2010, 06:40 AM

I think the main purpose of TPG's should be to verify authenticity and alterations. For 19th century cards only 2 grades should be necessary -
"Authentic" and "Authentic Altered" with a brief description of the alterations. As far as the other qualities of the card, we can judge for ourselves by looking at the card or the scan.

Rick

steve B · #4 11-19-2010, 07:33 AM

The whole issue of image density and fading is a very complex one. There's a good article here
http://albumen.conservation-us.org/l...ly/chap11.html

The rest of the site is well worth reading. It's a lot more scientific than most people are used to, but I feel that some of the cards are getting to the point where their historic and monetary value is enough that a professional approach to conservation and understanding of the print is warranted. Not everyone has the means to even approach the full archival conservation that a large museum can manage, even libraries cant usually find the resources. But understanding the print will help us make better choices about handling and storage

The image density is measurable in a repeatable scientific way. So yes, if it was worthwhile a grading company could determine the image quality accurately every time. But it's also expensive, so it wouldn't make sense for most cards.

A couple points to comment on.
I might have been unclear on is the detailed grade explanation. I don't feel this is something that should be done as a standard practice by the TPG as it takes time. And it's really pointless for many cards. But I do think it should be offered as a premium service for a price that the TPG can consider profitable. Maybe on walkthrough/imediate level cards at first as a test? If a card is $7500+ and you're paying 200 for grading another say 25-50 to have the details included somehow would be worth it to some of us right?

One poster commented on grading companies not grading based on size. I can state for sure that they do reject for size even with no evidence of trimming. I've had two T206 cards rejected, one for being too short, another as miscut. The short card is short, but isn't trimmed. The other also isn't trimmed but has rough cuts showing more than typical chipping top and bottom. It's unusual enough that I believe they didn't feel comfortable calling it unaltered. I have no problem with either rejection, both seem fair. And the cards are still very nice.

I sent them in on specials, so someday I may check to see if the short one might be done with a cutom insert. probably not, but I might ask.

Steve B

benjulmag · #5 11-19-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buymycards

I think the main purpose of TPG's should be to verify authenticity and alterations. For 19th century cards only 2 grades should be necessary -
"Authentic" and "Authentic Altered" with a brief description of the alterations. As far as the other qualities of the card, we can judge for ourselves by looking at the card or the scan.

Rick

This may the best post yet. More than anything else third party grading is to tell one what if anything has been done to the card. At that point, each person can decide based on his/her own subjective perspective how desireable the card is and what value to put on it. In today's day and age with easy ability to view a card's image, what more is really necessary?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
The first published hobby article, 1935....noted here	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	15	07-25-2007 09:43 PM
Hobby Retrospect	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	10	02-16-2007 11:10 AM
PSA discussion	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	103	05-11-2005 01:16 PM
Objective card grading	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	29	10-15-2004 10:05 AM
New trend on E-Bay? Selling cards rejected by grading services as such.	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	2	08-27-2004 12:02 PM