Has anyone here seen a Cobb (bat off shoulder) with a DRUM back ?

[tedzan]

Tim

1st....I don't know how Berger sneaked into my DRUM list. It was a listing mistake on my part and I have deleted it.

As for Kleinow / DRUM, the source for this card goes back to Bill Heitman. Which precedes the time period (circa 1999) when T206's were
being professionally "re-fronted" (or re-backed). Otherwise, I would be skeptical of this card as having been a DRUM that was re-fronted.

2nd....I'm curious as to your......
"I use a different cataloging system than most so the number of 350-460 players (67) will total more than most other lists."

My SOVEREIGN set indicates that 66 subjects were the design intent to be 350/460 series cards (by virtue of their apple-green backs).
Which subject is your 67th card ?

Thanks,

TED Z

[DixieBaseball]

How about a Cobb with a Red Sun Back ?

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by tedzan

2nd....I'm curious as to your......
"I use a different cataloging system than most so the number of 350-460 players (67) will total more than most other lists."

My SOVEREIGN set indicates that 66 subjects were the design intent to be 350/460 series cards (by virtue of their apple-green backs).
Which subject is your 67th card ?

Thanks,

TED Z

The card in question is Frank Smith - Chicago & Boston.

After looking closely at the distribution of the 350-460 and 460 Only groups it's my opinion that this card belongs on the 350-460 list even though it can only be found with a 460 series back. The Frank Smith cards (Chicago Amer. and Chicago & Boston) follow the 350-460 distribution path but the team change designation did not happen until the transition to the 460 series. This explains the absence of the F. Smith - Chicago & Boston from the Sovereign 350 Apple Green and Sovereign 460 set. The Sovereign 460 set is comprised of 46 cards that are all of the true 460 Only cards IMO.

I think these subtle nuances are what help us to understand the distribution path of this complicated set.

Let me know if this makes sense and if I need to clarify anything.

[tedzan]

Tim

I'm reprising this information regarding the Sovereign "apple-green" effect for those reading this; and, want to know what we are referring to.

Four examples of the 66 cards printed with apple-green backs.


Green back example of 150, 350 and 460 series cards



The following 66 cards have SOVEREIGN 350 backs that were printed "apple green". It appears evident that these 66 subjects were designated to
be extended into the 460 series (hence 350/460 subjects).

Of the 66, these 3 subjects (from 350 series) were not printed with any of the 460 series backs. Possibly, since their Major League careers ended
at that time (in 1910) when the start of the 460 series backs were being printed.

Joe Doyle
Nicholls (bat))
Rhoades (arm extended)

63 subjects (from 350 series) that were printed with 460 series backs

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Wash.-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (catching NY) >>>>>>>>> "Boston" caption in 460 series (traded May 26, 1910)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chi)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands/knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (bat)
Seymour (throwing)
Frank Smith (Chicago) >>>>>>>>> "Chicago & Boston" caption in 460 series (traded Aug 9, 1910)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off)
Wagner (bat on right)
White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Willis (throwing)
Wiltse (throwing)
CYoung (glove)


Tim

Indeed, there are only 46 cards in the 460-only series of my SOVEREIGN set.

But, I don't understand why you are accounting for Smith twice ?


TED Z

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Tim

Indeed, there are only 46 cards in the 460-only series of my SOVEREIGN set.

But, I don't understand why you are accounting for Smith twice ?


TED Z

My preference is to keep Kleinow Boston Catching and New York Catching as well as Frank Smith Chicago and Chicago & Boston separate on my lists so I can better follow which cards were included or excluded from each back printing. This has helped me gain a better understanding of when changes were made as well as grouping print runs of certain backs, etc. It's just a personal preference and I can understand if someone groups the cards differently.

[tedzan]

One last go around....seeking a Cobb (bat off shoulder) with a DRUM back.

Anyone out there have one, or have seen this T206 front/back combo ?






TED Z