Blyleven & Alomar get in the HOF

[sox1903wschamp]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

Blyleven was a very, very good pitcher and its hard to argue with 60 shutouts.

60 Shutouts is impressive. He get's my vote just on that.

[oldjudge]

Barry--Why so much emphasis on strikeouts? An out is an out. If you are a ground ball pitcher with a 3.50 ERA are you any different than a strikeout pitcher with a 3.50 ERA?

[Big Six]

there is a good arguement that ERA is a lousy stat, too...

[barrysloate]

I wouldn't put so much emphasis on strikeouts, but it is a pitching stat that is loved by fans and respected by people who follow the game. Blyleven had 3701 and is 5th all time. Maybe only one of many factors, but a superlative one that is a big part of his career.

Look, as we've said there are at least 100 guys or more that don't belong in the hall, but if you accept the fact that Perry, Sutton, Niekro among others are in, then Blyleven should be too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would rank Perrry well above Niekro and Sutton, and so does Bill James. He had two Cy Youngs and just missed a third, to go with the rest of his stats.

[mintacular]

One of the by-products of rejecting steroid-era players is that borderline HOF pre-steroid guys like Blyleven will slip in.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mintacular

One of the by-products of rejecting steroid-era players is that borderline HOF pre-steroid guys like Blyleven will slip in.

That is a great point. Given the mentality that 1 or 2 guys have to get in every year, replacements have been and will continue to be needed for Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Clemens et al.

[Cy2009]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would rank Perrry well above Niekro and Sutton, and so does Bill James. He had two Cy Youngs and just missed a third, to go with the rest of his stats.

If you accept Perry in the Hall of fame, then you must let McGwire, Bonds et al. into the Hall as well. Does anyone think that Gaylord would have had any chance for the Hall without the spitball?

Cy

[byrone]

Originally Posted by Cy2009

If you accept Perry in the Hall of fame, then you must let McGwire, Bonds et al. into the Hall as well. Does anyone think that Gaylord would have had any chance for the Hall without the spitball?

Cy

Just reading "Now Pitching" byBob Feller. He included Gaylord Perry in his top 10 pitchers of all-time. I'm willing to bet that the Perry "spitball" had much more psychologcal benefit for him than it did practical.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Barry--Why so much emphasis on strikeouts? An out is an out. If you are a ground ball pitcher with a 3.50 ERA are you any different than a strikeout pitcher with a 3.50 ERA?

strikeout is more valuable than a groundout. so is absolute, it doesn't depend on the luck of the ball, the defense behind, or various park factors. a go pitcher can have a 3.50 era this year, but next year it can be 5.00 while pitching the same way. one of the ways to measure a pitcher's true effectiveness now is through his defense-indepedent or fielding-indepedent pitching metrics...pitchers can't really control wins and there's a bit of luck in the traditional era.

[triwak]

I think both are deserving. And I'm already on record with my incredulity about what some consider to be a "watered down" Hall of Fame! Only about ONE percent of the total number of major league players have been enshrined. Using that barometer, it is by far the most difficult HOF of any of the major sports in which to be honored! You may argue for or against any specific player. But I just do not understand this desire for a HOF of only the top 50 players, or whatnot. Come on, really?

[barrysloate]

There are certain glamour statistics and the strikeout is one of them. Why do we see fans in the bleachers bringing K cards to post after each strikeout when the team's ace is on the mound? It just has that status and the fans love them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bert has a website that, in part, promoted himself for the Hall. Interesting.
http://www.bertblyleven.com/hall_of_fame.shtml

[dabigyankeeman]

Voters who voted for guys like Marquis Grissom, Leiter, Olerud, Surhoff, Boone, etc are making a mockery of the Hall and should not be allowed to vote in future elections.

[philliesphan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Bert has a website that, in part, promoted himself for the Hall. Interesting.
http://www.bertblyleven.com/hall_of_fame.shtml

Peter, intriguing especially since one of the tables is Most # of Career Home runs allowed, where Blyleven ranks seventh. The site says "ALL-TIME HOMERUNS ALLOWED- Blyleven ranks 7th (6 of top 10 are in the Hall of Fame - Moyer and Johnson not eligible yet)"

I'm not sure how or why it is relevant that 6 of the top 8 are in the HOF, since the last time I checked, giving up a Home Run was a BAD thing...