What do you make of this T206 Wiltse Portrait - No Cap?

[FrankWakefield]

I think the worn one was was slightly bigger when taken out of the pack, and was packed around by a kid for a while, probably with other cards, and because its edges stuck out further they got banged up. I think the one on the right got pasted into a scrapbook soon after leaving a cigarette pack. And after it was soaked off of the page it has been handled carefully by modern collectors who haven't banged it around.

[mrvster]

TRAE!
out treasure hunting ,huh??LOL....your doing great....nice eye...

this one is tougher to tell, i would have to take a look in person..
notice the shading missing in the N.Y. also and the uniform shirt itself...i wish the top and bottom didn't look so "factory cut", but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not scrap....how 's the stock?? the true question is, is it pied 150? or a pied 350??i'm going to guess pied 150...this early run had alot of "errors" and more scrap just inherent of the printing process i assume

these "borderliners" are tuf to tell, some of these are in the eye of the beholder....sgc would just slab this"A", (not missing color) on the flip....i have a sick Butler sgc slabbed "A" which has a double ghosted sov back, hand cut/off register front, but sgc couldn't describe on flip...i have a crumby front scan ...i'll try to post...

BTW...keep up with the great site TRAE!

Peace
your friend

Johnny

[mrvster]

Trae

sorry, didn't see in your post it is a pied 150

Anyway...i have two scraps but they are terrible pics.....

The Burns (thanks ART M.!!) is sweet scrap, the Butler has the crazy back(sorry no scan)....both are obvious scrap, just unable to be differentiated on the flip...

[4815162342]

I was going to say that the beater simply has less red, but then I noticed that the right cheek seems to protrude out more.

[mrvster]

Daryle,

your right, cheek does protrude out....good observation

[sreader3]

Hi Trae,

Good eye. There's another example (besides yours) of what I think may be the "wide format" Wiltse--also a Piedmont 150--in eBay completed listings at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HOOKS-WILTSE-No-...item58873ed06b

Maybe you can work your web developer magic and superimpose this possible second example on yours to confirm?

Starting to wonder if ALC may have done a touch-up job on Hooks early in the process ...

Scot

[steve B]

I'm not so sure about the cheek and shoulder, they measure the same doing some quick on screen measurements. I think those are just optical illusions.

It is either missing one of the red passes, or has a very different halftone red. I also think it's missing a different color, probably blue. Scans of the areas where the uniform lines are missing of weak at a high resolution like 800 dpi would make that clear

Steve B

[T206.org]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

I think the worn one was was slightly bigger when taken out of the pack, and was packed around by a kid for a while, probably with other cards, and because its edges stuck out further they got banged up. I think the one on the right got pasted into a scrapbook soon after leaving a cigarette pack. And after it was soaked off of the page it has been handled carefully by modern collectors who haven't banged it around.

Hi Frank, oddly the beater has a tear (glue peal?) on the back the looks like it's the one that spent some time in the scrap book. The nicer card has no evidence - really clean back.

Originally Posted by mrvster

this one is tougher to tell, i would have to take a look in person..
notice the shading missing in the N.Y. also and the uniform shirt itself...i wish the top and bottom didn't look so "factory cut", but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not scrap....how 's the stock??

Johnny! Top has a little wave to it too, and the stock might feel a little thin, but the scrapbook-esque tear on the back is probably the reason, I think it's normal overall.

Thanks for showing your cards (as always!), real cool Burns - I think I remember seeing it before.

Originally Posted by 4815162342

I was going to say that the beater simply has less red, but then I noticed that the right cheek seems to protrude out more.

Good catch - I agree, it does look that way.

Originally Posted by sreader3

Good eye. There's another example (besides yours) of what I think may be the "wide format" Wiltse--also a Piedmont 150--in eBay completed listings

Starting to wonder if ATC may have done a touch-up job on Hooks early in the process...

Hey-hey, Scot - cool find! I am leaning towards your closing comment as well. Thank you!

Originally Posted by steve B

I'm not so sure about the cheek and shoulder, they measure the same doing some quick on screen measurements. I think those are just optical illusions.

It is either missing one of the red passes, or has a very different halftone red. I also think it's missing a different color, probably blue. Scans of the areas where the uniform lines are missing of weak at a high resolution like 800 dpi would make that clear

Hi Steve, I appreciate it. Perhaps you're right about the optical illusions, but I'm still convinced that they're slightly different. Here's a monster scan of the card to look over:
http://www.t206.org/misc/wiltse_1200dpi.jpg

After blowing it up, and looking at the example Scot found above, I think this is simply a slight variation that was touched up early on, as he said.


Does anyone out there have this version of the card without a Piedmont 150 back?