Beware Carterscards2006

[JamesGallo]

The bottom edge looks to have a slated cut.

IMO I just would not buy a GAI card without seeing it in person. I knwo there are a lot of people that respected there head grader but the fact of the matter is I hear more problems then anything else about cards in those holders.

Also as far as I can tell the "no returns" line on ebay is total crap. Paypal and or ebay can force you to accept a return, but it may take a while and lots of paper work. I do not know how they will handle this as the card is no longer in the same state is was sold in (assuming SGC cracked it) so that could be an issue.

You are also dealing with one grading company vs another and that could also be a snag. Send it to PSA and hope it gets a grade :-D

James G

[Bilko G]

So is the card cracked out of the GAI case? If so, did you crack it before sending it to SGC or did SGC crack it?

This is a very interesting paypal case, where i can see both sides thinking they are in the right. Good Luck.

[barrysloate]

I see this as a more complicated situation. Sure, Todd is stuck with a trimmed card and I hope the seller would consider returning his money. But...

The seller advertised a GAI 7.5 and delivered a GAI 7.5. I'm not sure there is an implied guarantee that it will crossover favorably to every grading service. Plus, he sent it to you graded and in a 7.5 holder; you would be returning it to him raw and trimmed.

How can any seller survive in this market, when the product he is selling is damaged and he may not even know it? This is just one of many reasons why I hate TPG in its current state and feel the industry needs a major overhaul.

Again, I feel bad for Todd and hope he gets compensated, but it's reasonable to think that the seller did nothing more than list his product, and now because of a grader's incompetence he has to take a huge hit.

[bobbyw8469]

I don't believe a refund is entitiled. Once the card is broken out, all bets are off. The buyer bought a GAI 7.5 and received a GAI 7.5? What if the cards winds up going to PSA where it gets an '8'!?!?!?!?! I am sorry, but I am siding with the seller on this one.

[bobbyw8469]

grader's incompetence

How do we know the grader is incompetent?!?!?! Who is to say who got it right??? I can't tell you how many times cards have received conflicting grades from different graders. The buyer chose to crack the card out himself. That is on him. Once he did that, no refund should be applied. There is no express guarantee that you will received a favorable ruling from grading company to grading company. It is almost like playing the lottery (the crackout game). And yes, SGC is fallible. I had a 1956 Mantle come back SGC "A". Not quite sure why, as the only crime the card had was being offcentered. PSA agreed and graded it PSA 4 (MC). The funny part is, if you sent it back in to SGC, and it got a grade of '8', and turned a $1,000 GAI card into a $3,000+ SGC card, you will feel pretty silly for this "kill the seller" mentality.....

[edhans]

Curiously, I once got a second chance offer from this seller about four hours after the auction ended. Needless to say, I didn't take him up on it.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

This is just one of many reasons why I hate TPG in its current state and feel the industry needs a major overhaul.

IMO the above line in Barry's response is the most dead on response I've heard yet. TPG has really become comical and we as collectors should be ashamed of ourselves as we place way to much trust into these guys. This grader says that, that grader says this!! It's just ridiculous. Oh, to answer the question at hand. I to think the buyer got what they purchased which was a GAI graded card. A refund shouldn't be mandatory simply based on what SGC's opinion was. Who says they're even right for cry'in out loud..

[Jim VB]

Did Todd say the card had been cracked out, or did SGC determine it was trimmed prior to opening the case? That may be the deciding factor in this matter. If it's still in the slab, he should return it because it's not the catd advertised (M101-5.)

[barrysloate]

Thanks Tony, and the only thing we know with absolute certainty is that one of the graders got it wrong. We're just not certain which one it was.

[OldSchoolBaseball]

I side with the defendent (SELLER). You bought a graded card from a somewhat reputable grading company (GAI) and took a chance to cross to another company.

How is that the sellers fault? Sometime you hit a homerun changing grades, sometimes you don't.

So the seller has to take back your card and pay to regrade again? You knew what you were getting when you bought GAI.

[iwantitiwinit]

I don't in any way see how any refund here is warranted. Facts: 1) You bid on and bought a graded card. 2) All pertinent facts were disclosed about the card at time of sale, ie. grading company, grade, type of card, No Refunds on graded cards, etc. 3) You received the card offered in the manner that it was offered in a untampered with holder. Fact of law - the transaction ends at this point. No warranties or guarantees were made or implied.

The fact that you chose to submit the card to another grading agency and were then not happy with the result is not germane to the previous argument. It has no bearing on the purchase/sale transaction which again was completed satisfactorily from the point of law.

Personally, I find it surprising that you are making such a fuss about this. It would be interesting to know your motivation for resubmitting the card for grading? Lastly, I wouldn't bother pursuing a lawsuit here, in my opinion you will end up being countersued and most likely be on the hook for at a minimum court costs assuming you have listed all pertinent facts that could be viewed in your favor.

[ChiefBenderForever]

This is a complicated issue. I had assumed card was still in the holder and SGC had not taken it out, if it was seller will have a clear case as to why they won't take it back. My biggest issue at this point is no communication by the seller, by not responding to Todd he made him more upset and things got to this point. This hobby has a lot of gambling aspects to it sometimes and this is one of those cases, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose but this is a huge loss and for the seller to sit silent is not helping out at all.

[novakjr]

The main problem you're going to run into, is that you cannot return the item as purchased. By cracking the slab, whether done by you or SGC, you actually changed what it is. Basically, you cannot give the seller back exactly what he sent you. The slab WAS a major part of the purchase, and that has now since been compromised.

I know the saying is "buy the card, not the holder", BUT anytime you buy a graded/slabbed card(whether the slab is correct or not), that is exactly what you are buying, and NOT just a card.

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by novakjr

The main problem you're going to run into, is that you cannot return the item as purchased. By cracking the slab, whether done by you or SGC, you actually changed what it is. Basically, you cannot give the seller back exactly what he sent you. The slab WAS a major part of the purchase, and that has now since been compromised.

I thought we were under the impression that the slab wasn't compromised?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Robextend

I thought we were under the impression that the slab wasn't compromised?

Correct. The OP never said that the slab had been cracked. Somebody assumed that along the way and others who comment aren't reading all the posts.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Correct. The OP never said that the slab had been cracked. Somebody assumed that along the way and others who comment aren't reading all the posts.

Sorry, yeah. I just caught up on the entire thread. As long as the card is still holdered, there shouldn't be any issues returning it. But it seems no one is 100% sure that this is the case yet though.

Anyways, assuming it's still holdered, this will again come back to the "NO REFUNDS" thing. If you bought the item after seeing that in the listing, then you technically entered into a contract with the seller, knowing that there would be "NO REFUNDS".

[scmavl]

Wow, I'd hate to be in this position, on both sides. If I was the seller and had bought the card in the GAI holder, then later sold it in the same holder, I'd feel like I'd held up my end of the bargain and should not have to refund the money. But on the buyers side, I'd hate to be stuck with an altered card.

I say resubmit to SGC/PSA/Beckett and hope for the best. Good luck.

[tiger8mush]

So if I won a SGC numerically graded card from a Brockelman & Luckey auction and sent the card to PSA (in the SGC holder) and it came back as trimmed, should Leon give me my money back?

[scmavl]

I think the only thing I learned from this thread is that there are some Net54 members I don't want to deal with, based on the rudeness displayed.