Mantle signature opinions

[mcgwirecom]

Okay how about this one?

[bigtrain]

Randall, I agree. I can't tell the difference. Wish someone would point out what to look for.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by mcgwirecom

Okay how about this one?

100% Mickey. I won't go into detail but there are major differences in the two autographs which stick out like a sore thumb.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Below is your typical Mickey Mantle forgery "authenticated" by the now defunct GAI with the cert signed by Mike Baker.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mickey-Mantle-si...item230ee1d14b

PTFARMER.jpg

[CMIZ5290]

I tend to agree with christopher on the second one being the real deal. If it is a forgery, it's a good one.

[mcgwirecom]

I am just trying to get a feel for what is wrong with it. I am not contending any opinions as I surely am no Mantle expert. To me they looked pretty close except for maybe the length of the flags on the M's.

[CMIZ5290]

The "mantle" part of the sigs is clearly different

[CMIZ5290]

Look at the letter "n" in mantle, substantial difference.

[mr2686]

I have several Mantle autos that I got in person, but I still have had problems over the years telling the good from the bad. Funny though, now that I'm looking at some of these bad ones, there does seem to be some tell tale signs that seem kinda obvious. I think part of the problem, at least with me, is that I get kinda caught up looking at the M's and it's almost like I'm locked in and can't see the rest.

[khkco4bls]

that looks real to me to. the N in mantle very hard to forge that different slant

[Fuddjcal]

I agree with Truth that the first ball is a terrible forgery and the 2nd one is authentic. My reasoning on the "authentic" ball is that the way the "M" in Mantle attaches or interacts with the "a". The M in Mantle tends to "flick upward" not with pressure, but with a natural motion of going from M to Ma.Notice in the fake, it is very labored in that area and most time it is a clear stopping starting motion, not even in the right place. The fact that the M's don't look right at all on the first ball and the c is pointing up. (Mickey's rarely pointed up, but in the forgeries, they look like they say "Milkey". Occasionally, he would not curve the c fully, but it still looks nothing like these forgeries.

The n in the forgeries are also terrible and the appear to say Mauntle.

Now in the real thing ball #2, Notice the way the M goes with the Ma. It was also rare for him to strike through the half moons. He normally came right to the exact spot and then transfered a drop of ink there. Still from what you can see # 2 looks Real #1 is not close.

Now for the GAI PICTURE.......

[Fuddjcal]

So here's what a real signature looks like on that same picture. This one doesn't have a cert, but it is very easy to see this one is authentic.

Notice how it is right on the sweet spot of the photo. Notice the formation of the M's and the flow, size and where it is on the photo. Notice the way there is a little flick where the M goes into the a naturally. The c is rounded and not pointing up. Also notice how the half moons end with a little dab of ink. There are other things too that I just can't muster going into. Do it for yourself and you can be an expert in 2 weeks.

There are some authentic ones to that "don't flick" from the "M" to "a", but this is one area I always focus on. It's much easier for me to see the authentic vs. forgery, Not 100%, but 97% isn't bad?

[jb217676]

Here's a great sig. that I got in person.

[scmavl]

What about the occasional "loop" at the end of the half moons? Were these more prominant later?

Example (not mine):

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

There are some authentic ones to that "don't flick" from the "M" to "a", but this is one area I always focus on. It's much easier for me to see the authentic vs. forgery, Not 100%, but 97% isn't bad?

cool analysis chuck...you got me looking at my own mantle. i see the "flick" on the Ma and other signs of authentic...but my Mantle looks a little like Mauntle

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

cool analysis chuck...you got me looking at my own mantle. i see the "flick" on the Ma and other signs of authentic...but my Mantle looks a little like Mauntle

so it does, but not as pronounced. Still every other aspect including that pointy "n" look great to me. On both of those authentic samples, notice how he leaves some ink when he stops the pen on the completion of the half moons, which come up short of the top of the apex.

The "Loop" does throw a monkey wrench into some forgeries that are really good at doing that style, but of course his signature changed and there are many variations. The loops were beautiful and hard to find authentic. Here's one of my favorites with the loop from my collection. Ironically, it's the only Global certed item in my collection and rarer than a signed beatle album

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

cool analysis chuck...you got me looking at my own mantle. i see the "flick" on the Ma and other signs of authentic...but my Mantle looks a little like Mauntle

This is a very good Mantle, Chuck. The forgers can't get this particular Mantle right. The forgers Mantle always looks like "Mautle."