"The Unauthenticatables"

Clutch-Hitter · #1 04-03-2011, 12:01 AM

Regarding ".... Smith," whoever signed it was having trouble with the ink on the "S," first hump of the "m," and the "h."

What keeps catching my eye in "...Smith" on the card and the found example is:

The stop/go where the "m" ends and the "i" begins.
The second hump of the "m."
The "S," including the height of it.

The book and the found example:

The h in Smith travels above the line consistently
The crossed t has a similar angle, above the t and through the h.
The entire name travels on the line consistently
The F in Frank were partially done, lacking pressure in the loop, fading off.

............

The S in the book example is different from the others, but the S on the card and found ex. are similar.
The F in the found ex. is different, but the F on the card and book are similar
The end of the h on the card is different, but he didn't have a line to write on.

In the few instances where one seems different, the other two are similar.

novakjr · #2 04-03-2011, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutch-Hitter

Regarding ".... Smith," whoever signed it was having trouble with the ink on the "S," first hump of the "m," and the "h."

What keeps catching my eye in "...Smith" on the card and the found example is:

The stop/go where the "m" ends and the "i" begins.
The second hump of the "m."
The "S," including the height of it.

The book and the found example:

The h in Smith travels above the line consistently
The crossed t has a similar angle, above the t and through the h.
The entire name travels on the line consistently
The F in Frank were partially done, lacking pressure in the loop, fading off.

............

The S in the book example is different from the others, but the S on the card and found ex. are similar.
The F in the found ex. is different, but the F on the card and book are similar
The end of the h on the card is different, but he didn't have a line to write on.

In the few instances where one seems different, the other two are similar.

Based on the examples shown, I'd say there's a good chance the sig on the card may be legit. Nothing for sure though. It appears that more time was put into the signature on the card, not in a forgery sort of way, but more of a difficulty with the writing utensil sort of way, as you pointed out. Also, maybe a bit more care in making the signature nice for somebody that was kind enough to ask for it. I know when I had my band, whenever I signed something for someone, I made it a little more nice than my typical chicken scratch on a credit card receipt or random paperwork.. This is all just speculation though.

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #3 04-03-2011, 07:49 AM

Sean,

Can you post the Smith WWI card in its entirety? I spent over six months collecting the WWI cards of every major leaguer I could unearth and was unable to locate Smith's. I'm not convinced that yours is the right Smith, as the signature doesn't quite match up to others I have on file. Does the vital info match up to known info for Smith? Also, I notice that the Frank Smith you found had listed a mother in Connecticut as next of kin; Smith the ballplayer was a lifelong resident of Pittsburgh.

Here are two verifiable examples of Frank Smith. The first is from his WWII draft card, circa 1942-43. The next is a form he filled out for baseball historian Karl Wingler in 1945. This contains the only extra writing I've seen on Smith. (Please note that the WWII card was filled out by a government worker and only signed by Smith).

milkit1 · #4 04-03-2011, 08:25 AM

im having a hard time doing it as it will only let me take a close up. However I noticed the one I got lists the birthdate as October 18, 1879 so I think you may be right jodi. My frank smith says hes married to a imogene. It lists him as manager but it looks like its for a furniture comp. weird though that they dont have a draft card of the real frank elmer smith, this one is really close is there any chance it could still be him?

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #5 04-03-2011, 08:30 AM

From what I can see of your scan, Imogene is actually listed as that Frank Elmer Smith's mother. The Wingler form in my previous post shows Smith the ballplayer being married to Rena. Adding to that, both of the documents in my files list October 28 as his date of birth.

Clutch-Hitter · #6 04-03-2011, 08:34 AM

Here's a Frank with his B'Day, but can't read the form very well...

[IMG]

[/IMG]

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #7 04-03-2011, 08:36 AM

Good job! I couldn't find it for some reason.

milkit1 · #8 04-03-2011, 08:51 AM

your right and there is no mention of him being married in 1918.

milkit1 · #9 04-03-2011, 08:52 AM

nice work greg, did you find that on ancestry? When i did it I could only find the one I found

BillyCoxDodgers3B · #10 04-03-2011, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkit1

your right and there is no mention of him being married in 1918.

Actally, if you look right above Smith's signature, Rena has been listed next of kin, proving we have our man.

Clutch-Hitter · #11 04-03-2011, 09:26 AM

I just used first name, last name, and date of birth in the military search section. Looks like baseball reference may be off a year on Mcelveen's B'Day:

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