Anonymity vs Privacy on the Net54baseball

teetwoohsix · #1 04-06-2011, 03:44 AM

OK, I fully understand both sides of the coin on this, but one thing I don't get is this:

(ficticious name used for example) *Bob Smith*

Bob's came on the board accusing X of ripping him off, and then goes on a rampage talking trash about a reputable (or non reputable ) auction house, then proceeds to bad mouth and disrespect multiple other board members.

Bob Smith's name is right there under his screen name. Other than Leon banning Bob Smith, what do you now do armed with Bob Smith's real name??

You have the name, but now what?? Do you know who he is all of a sudden?
Or do you still not know him at all? Retaliation? What?

I hope I'm presenting the scenario properly. Any time Leon has had someone disclose their name, I thought "O.K., still have no idea who he is, but O.K."

I fully agree that if someone is accusing someone of something (or any of those types of scenario's) that the person or buisness does have the right to know their names- they may want to sue for slander, or whatever. But I guess I don't get what the fuss is about everyone else having to have the persons info, *unless they are ripping people off*.

Sincerely, Clayton

mdschulze · #2 04-06-2011, 08:42 AM

I agree with Clayton's post above. Can a person's true identity really be confirmed upon signing up as a Net54 member? If the answer is "No", then requiring everyone to post their name wouldn't make sense. If a member signs up knowing there is probably a good chance they'll piss someone off, the chances of them disguising their identity increases.

Leon, a decision will have to be made one way or the other on your end... either everyone posts their name or no one is required. I don't see a middle ground that will free up time on your end. If you start setting guidelines to justify when a person should post their real name, you'll find yourself spending more time defining and explaining to people each individual guideline.... my suggestion is to keep it simple.

Whatever decision you make, you'll surely catch some negative feedback.... but once the storm blows over, everything should be fine. This is sort of like being the coach of a team. You may have a handful of parents in the stands who criticize your every move and think they can do a better job than you, but given the chance to volunteer and takeover the team... no one raises their hand. Make your decision, one way or the other, and I'm sure 95% of the members here will back you. Thanks, Mike

Leon · #3 04-06-2011, 10:20 AM

So here we are on this rule. It seems obvious to me (and should be to the rest of the board) we will never have 100% agreement as there are too many good reasons to have names be known or not.

I think what I am going to do is leave the rule the same as it is now BUT put in a few more lines at the end of it to try to take me and the other moderators out of the "back against the wall" issue, with mandating so much in each thread. When someone in a thread says "But their name HAS to be in the post" it puts us moderators (mainly me) in the uncomfortable situation of having to be involved too often. Most folks on the board, that know me very well, know my pet peeves and so forth. NO one is going to be able to hide behind a user id, and not be known, if they are making heated or disparaging comments. Hopefully the risk of having your full name exposed, but not mandating it (for the reason above) will be good enough to take care of the issue. Here is what I am proposing. I don't see how it can be made better but am still open to ideas. At the end of the day members will either trust my judgement on the matter or not. As many members have rightfully said, they can post or not...no one is making them do it. regards

"Anonymous, where this board is concerned, implies that you are not known to the moderator or anyone else. That is not permitted on Net54baseball. However, you may remain private on the board; otherwise, as long as your post is not argumentative, controversial, confrontational, accusatorial etc.�For example you can discuss attributes of cards, sets or memorabilia and stay private. You can not say someone is an imbecile, hard to deal with, gave poor service etc�and remain private on the board. In addition to that if your opinion is that you dislike someone, hate them, can�t stand or don�t like anything about them, and you want to tell the world about it on Net54baseball, then your full name will need to be in your post. The moderator may put the posters name on the board or delete their posts, at his sole discretion, when this rule is not adhered to. *Heated debates will require first and last names to be known, and made public, on the board. Contact information will be given out for legal reasons or under extraordinary circumstances at the discretion of the moderator. **The moderator has the authority to not require full name disclosure at his discretion, especially for well known members. This does NOT mean members can hide behind a user id on the board. Please be aware that your full name may be made public or given to participants privately."

Big Six · #4 04-06-2011, 11:23 AM

In my few months on the board, it's obvious Leon does a wonderful job running Net54...it's also obvious that it can be an overwhelming and thankless job. I've learned so much from reading all the posts and seeing many things I've never seen before...and I am glad to be a part of this community, albeit a small part.

That said, I would really encourage everyone to think before they type and try to put themselves in Leon's shoes...at the end of the day, we all have to be personally responsible for our own actions. We shouldn't have to rely on Leon and the other mods to be our conscience...

T206Collector · #5 04-06-2011, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

OK, I fully understand both sides of the coin on this, but one thing I don't get is this:

(ficticious name used for example) *Bob Smith*

Bob's came on the board accusing X of ripping him off, and then goes on a rampage talking trash about a reputable (or non reputable ) auction house, then proceeds to bad mouth and disrespect multiple other board members.

Bob Smith's name is right there under his screen name. Other than Leon banning Bob Smith, what do you now do armed with Bob Smith's real name??

You have the name, but now what?? Do you know who he is all of a sudden?
Or do you still not know him at all? Retaliation? What?

I hope I'm presenting the scenario properly. Any time Leon has had someone disclose their name, I thought "O.K., still have no idea who he is, but O.K."

I fully agree that if someone is accusing someone of something (or any of those types of scenario's) that the person or buisness does have the right to know their names- they may want to sue for slander, or whatever. But I guess I don't get what the fuss is about everyone else having to have the persons info, *unless they are ripping people off*.

Sincerely, Clayton

+1 <--- 100%

The idea that people give a $hit about someone else's real name on an Internet forum is, in my view, heavily based on the view that "if I share my name, then I deserve to know yours, too." But the self-interest of one person to share their names cannot be a fair justification to require another person to share theirs, too.

Leon · #6 04-06-2011, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206Collector

+1 <--- 100%

The idea that people give a $hit about someone else's real name on an Internet forum is, in my view, heavily based on the view that "if I share my name, then I deserve to know yours, too." But the self-interest of one person to share their names cannot be a fair justification to require another person to share theirs, too.

I won't be giving names out unless it is called for. Don't get into those arguments/heated discussions and you have nothing to worry about. Otherwise, give me a perfect solution and we will go with it. Just because someone asks for a name doesn't mean I am giving it out. It has to be warranted, imo.

T206Collector · #7 04-06-2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

I won't be giving names out unless it is called for. Don't get into those arguments/heated discussions and you have nothing to worry about. Otherwise, give me a perfect solution and we will go with it. Just because someone asks for a name doesn't mean I am giving it out. It has to be warranted, imo.

Leon,

To be clear, I'm totally comfortable with whatever solution you come up with -- short of requiring me to publicly post my name anywhere on the internet. I have simply never understood why anyone thinks putting their name out there is a good idea in any context. Or why anyone trusts that the names people do post are at all accurate -- or even relevant to any possible conversation.

So what if T205Trader calls me an a$$hole. What good does it do me to know his real name is Joe Smith? How would I know that's his real name anyway.

Best I can tell is people take it personally because they posted their own real names. But to me, that problem lies with the person who went public -- not T205Trader.

Leon · #8 04-06-2011, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Leon,

To be clear, I'm totally comfortable with whatever solution you come up with -- short of requiring me to publicly post my name anywhere on the internet. I have simply never understood why anyone thinks putting their name out there is a good idea in any context. Or why anyone trusts that the names people do post are at all accurate -- or even relevant to any possible conversation.

So what if T205Trader calls me an a$$hole. What good does it do me to know his real name is Joe Smith? How would I know that's his real name anyway.

Best I can tell is people take it personally because they posted their own real names. But to me, that problem lies with the person who went public -- not T205Trader.

T206- You are in the extreme minority concerning your feelings towards the board. Most folks want to mingle and know other collectors. You don't and that is fine. No harm no foul. I have called several new registrants in the last few days as well as previously. If they gave me their incorrect names they were sticking to their story on the phone. There is no doubt a few roaches come in under the door. All I can do is the best I can at keeping it legit. "Boomer" posted this morning, I don't have his contact info (which will be called) so he is now unable to post on the board until I get it. I am as diligent as I can be on trying to get folks to be accountable for what they say. Most folks want to know who is having heated debates with them or calling them out etc....., me included. That is the reason for the rule in the first place. It will continue to be the rule too. I feel that adding the last few sentences to the current rule that was in place will probably do the trick. As far as anyone being frustrated or not liking the way the board is being run, all I can say is, it's America and this is a private board. If anyone doesn't like the rules they don't have to participate. I am not saying any of this to confront you about it, I am only giving my view on it. best regards

T206Collector · #9 04-06-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

T206- You are in the extreme minority concerning your feelings towards the board. Most folks want to mingle and know other collectors.

It should not surprise anyone that posts for anonymity are outweighed by posts for publicity. By the very nature of those two positions, I would expect nothing else. And frankly, if I believed my feelings were in the majority, I'd have very little to say on this topic.

So while I would agree that I am in the extreme minority -- I would add the caveat that I am only in the minority among the regular posters here. But I am speaking not only for this minority -- which, again, by its very nature has an aversion to too much public exposure -- but also for all the lurkers, who love to read our little posts, but abhor the clubhouse mentality and decide not to post as a result.

Nobody seems all that inclined to consider how to make our forum more inviting for collectors who like to remain more private. All those great collections of legendary collectors -- some extremely wealthy, famous and private people. The more you make this place a fishbowl, the fewer of them you will attract to make contributions. That is another price of outlawing anonymity.

I'm getting pretty close to beating a dead horse here, but in my view, there should be one thread available for those who want to swap personal stories, share photos of themselves and their families, talk about their careers, etc. The rest of the threads should be made up of card-related discussions. And if someone is an a$$hole to someone else, they lose the key to the front door.

Oh well.... down from my soap box.......

Leon · #10 04-06-2011, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206Collector

It should not surprise anyone that posts for anonymity are outweighed by posts for publicity. By the very nature of those two positions, I would expect nothing else. And frankly, if I believed my feelings were in the majority, I'd have very little to say on this topic.

So while I would agree that I am in the extreme minority -- I would add the caveat that I am only in the minority among the regular posters here. But I am speaking not only for this minority -- which, again, by its very nature has an aversion to too much public exposure -- but also for all the lurkers, who love to read our little posts, but abhor the clubhouse mentality and decide not to post as a result.

Nobody seems all that inclined to consider how to make our forum more inviting for collectors who like to remain more private. All those great collections of legendary collectors -- some extremely wealthy, famous and private people. The more you make this place a fishbowl, the fewer of them you will attract to make contributions. That is another price of outlawing anonymity.

I'm getting pretty close to beating a dead horse here, but in my view, there should be one thread available for those who want to swap personal stories, share photos of themselves and their families, talk about their careers, etc. The rest of the threads should be made up of card-related discussions. And if someone is an a$$hole to someone else, they lose the key to the front door.

Oh well.... down from my soap box.......

You make some good points, admittedly. I realize you are speaking for the silent minority and that is commendable. However, the one point you are not taking into account enough, is the fact that ANYONE can stay private as long as they don't get into heated debates or name calling. A lot of our members prefer not to be publicly known and they are happy as larks while staying out of threads that will make them be publicly known on the board. Overall, I do agree with your statements. It's not my intention to dissuade collectors from participating but it IS my intention to have people that want to argue stand behind what they are saying. I am beating that same dead horse too

.One other quick thought. I also moderated the old board before the change to our new s/w. I can safely say we didn't have a large amount of collectors, who because they could stay completely anonymous (not known to even moderators) post very often, especially with regard to their collections or making helpful posts. Most of those anonymous people caused havoc. There will never be total anonymity allowed on this board. I feel very strongly about that. Your last sentence (not the soap box one) does state the situation very well. Honestly I expect that when this thread dies we will have very few problems going forward. My whole goal here was get out of intervening so much and I think these few new sentences in the rules should help. Again, I do appreciate everyone's thoughts on the subject. I wish it were an easy debate but it isn't. There really is no right answer that satisfies everyone. regards

take care

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