Real or Fake?

[steve B]

Odd, he's also sold one of these, and has another or the same one up now.
Fantasy piece? Real?
http://cgi.ebay.com/BABE-RUTH-RED-RO...item27bb0e06dc

Making stuff like that is pretty difficult technically, not everyone has access to a die cutting press. But having more than one of them in that sort of condition and taking only $250 for it seems odd. He seems to have a number of interesting advertising pieces, maybe too many. Although he could have found a stash of stuff from someone who worked for a company that printed the ad pieces. Unlikely though since there aren't any for boring products or that don't include a major celebrity.

Rethinking things and assuming fakes and fantasy pieces, the technical sophistication of the stuff is impressive. Plus the restraint of the sellers is also impressive. Stuff like that is usually tripped up by someone deciding to wholesale it instead of selling one here and there.

Steve B

[Leon]

It might be good but I am a bit skeptical. The lithography looks kind of washed out compared with others I have seen. I would require a guarantee on something like that before I bought it. regards

[Jaybird]

I would think that this was returned by the previous bidder. So, that makes me even more nervous. If it was returned once and then relisted, why did that person send it back?

It could also be that the person never paid but it makes me wonder.

[GoldenAge50s]

Colors too washed out to suit me---nothing vivid or stand-outish like I would expect. Hans likeness very undefined.

[bobbvc]

Better Scans...

[docpatlv]

Bob,

I am almost 100% certain that these are well made fakes. The key is, as others have stated, the embossed areas should show through to the other side (reverse). I fairly recently had some discussions with Rob Lifson about these and pretty much came up with the conclusion that they are well made fakes.

Mike

Edited to add image: From the front it appears to be embossed, but the reverse should show the results of embossing similar to the cigar label pictured below

[Jaybird]

Also, the one in REA had vertical lines in the gold area looking like corduroy. The "reprint" one does not have that level of detail.

[bobbvc]

Front looks but doesn't feel embossed. I have a friend who owns a printing shop that can get some pretty detailed scans and color/ink separations. I'm going to take it to him next week. I'm not convinced it's real, but could go either way at this point. If it's fake, well done. Reminds me of some of those Helmar Brewing repros/art projects on Ebay. Seems like the seller has a liberal return policy at least. He said he found two in a page of an old book. I got the second chance offer. Thought it worth the risk.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by steve B

Odd, he's also sold one of these, and has another or the same one up now.
Fantasy piece? Real?
http://cgi.ebay.com/BABE-RUTH-RED-RO...item27bb0e06dc

Making stuff like that is pretty difficult technically, not everyone has access to a die cutting press. But having more than one of them in that sort of condition and taking only $250 for it seems odd. He seems to have a number of interesting advertising pieces, maybe too many. Although he could have found a stash of stuff from someone who worked for a company that printed the ad pieces. Unlikely though since there aren't any for boring products or that don't include a major celebrity.

Rethinking things and assuming fakes and fantasy pieces, the technical sophistication of the stuff is impressive. Plus the restraint of the sellers is also impressive. Stuff like that is usually tripped up by someone deciding to wholesale it instead of selling one here and there.

Steve B

This is just regarding this piece, not the cigar label........

Two days ago I was in a local antique mall and they had a tin type wall advertising sign with this identical print on it.....I flipped it over and on the backside it said it was made in 1991.........

I don't know either way about the bottle-topper piece as far as if it's real or not,,,,but it was coincidental that I saw that sign right after reading this thread

[steve B]

Looking at the detailed scans I'd have to think fake too. A bit less impressive than if they'd done the embossing, but still a pretty detailed fake. The metallic ink isn't easy at all. I'd love to be able to compare the screning of the picture area to an original to see just how close they got.

I'm pretty sure it's based on the top one of the genuine examples. The registration of the "embossing" looks very similar, and it has the same extra red mark in the border at the right tip.
It looks like the one in the original auction is the same as well.

Reproducing identifiable details in source material is a common mistake of fakers, and one we should be happy about.

Steve B