spence authentication knowledge or reputation

[sflayank]

oh yes..and by the way what i didnt mention here...does anyone else here realize that spence himself probably doesnt even look at your piece...he was there yesterday...and one of his team was actually the person whose opinion i have to live with....spence never even looked at it...so apparently his team are experts too....and i should have asked for my money back...since i paid for spence to authenticate it...not a team member.. and the only role spence himself played was pocketing my cash

[Exhibitman]

This 'court certified' forensic document examiner nonsense also needs some sunlight. The associations that certify these people are diploma mills. Government authorities and courts don't certify witnesses--they do certify (at least in CA) translators to work translating testimony and documents, but not experts to opine on whether a document is genuine or a signature is real. What they mean when they say they are court qualified is that a court has allowed them to testify as an expert witness. The rule on that is loose: as long as the witness can show some expertise above that of a layman he will be allowed to testify, which is called being "qualified" as an expert. Any of us could qualify to testify as experts on what we collect. Doesn't mean our opinions are worth a damn, just that we have enough of a resume to give them. It is left to the judge and jury to decide if they are idiots or not.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

And try speaking to a real live woman.

Your mom is not happy with the blow up doll collection??

Sorry I could not resist

[drc]

It's up to the individual judge to decide who is allowed as an expert witness in a case, and many judges are wary of forensic signature experts in general. Some don't allow them in as experts.

[HRBAKER]

Frankly we get what we are willing to accept, and in a way deserve it. This hobby in general has grown for years in a totally unregulated manner and with very few accountable for much of anything. People complain about auction houses, auction house owners, grading companies, authenticators, the list goes on and on, yet they continue to flourish. Why, because we are all like little kids at the end of the day when it comes to the "stuff." Stuff trumps all, just like the crack addict who is none too discerning where the rock comes from.

[keithsky]

As soon as these authenticators stated using the word "In our opinion" the 3rd party stuff went downhill because they don't have to be accountable for anything. You and me can say Our Opinion and it's the same thing except these guys are sucking your money for No Responsibility.

[RichardSimon]

I was on jury duty in NYC.
I was called for a very famous case, and due to the hardship that it would create for me(3 months of jury duty) I was excused from the case.
I followed the case in the newspapers.
Both sides in the case had "handwriting experts" testifying.
The defendant's expert testified that yes the questioned document was legitimate and the prosecution expert said no it was not legitimate.
The point being that "handwiting experts" can be bought and paid for and if you shop for one you can find one to give you the opinion you want.
The defendant was found guilty meaning his expert who said the document was legitimate was probably not believed by the jury.
As an authenticator I only accept autographs for examination that I am familar with. I do not deem myself to be an expert in many types of autographs and I don't maintain a big staff or have a large advertising budget like my esteemed competitors.

[murphusa]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

As an authenticator I only accept autographs for examination that I am familar with. I do not deem myself to be an expert in many types of autographs and I don't maintain a big staff or have a large advertising budget like my esteemed competitors.

Throughtout the years, I have purchased 6 items from Richard Simon and had 1 other item authenticated.

I have sold 6 of the items each with only the letter/card from Richard and never once did any of the buyers question the item authenticity.

No one asked me for a document or opinion from a so called "Major", Why?

I had the best

[GrayGhost]

It all still boils down to an opinion. The "big boys" have knowledge, yes, but make mistakes too just like anyone. Common sense is something many autograph buyers lack, and they should also research signatures. That said, JSA, PSA/DNA are the biggest because they do have a HUGE budget and knowledge too. But, people like Richard are just as good, w/out the "huge staff" as he stated, plus limiting to what he knows. (Ive heard of JSA authenticating Rock and Roll sigs too, they r experts in that area?).

In the end, its who you are comftorable with, and for the buyer, the same thing. Apart from some like Morales and others who certify many "patently bad sigs", make your best choice and enjoy collecting.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by murphusa

Throughtout the years, I have purchased 6 items from Richard Simon and had 1 other item authenticated.

I have sold 6 of the items each with only the letter/card from Richard and never once did any of the buyers question the item authenticity.

No one asked me for a document or opinion from a so called "Major", Why?

I had the best

all fine and dandy, but can richard give his opinion in 3 secs flat? that's the true test of a real expert...

[murphusa]

on some things I would guess yes

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by sflayank

oh yes..and by the way what i didnt mention here...does anyone else here realize that spence himself probably doesnt even look at your piece...he was there yesterday...and one of his team was actually the person whose opinion i have to live with....spence never even looked at it...so apparently his team are experts too....and i should have asked for my money back...since i paid for spence to authenticate it...not a team member.. and the only role spence himself played was pocketing my cash

Oh wow, yes as soon as the "team member" failed it, you should have immediately asked for Spence to view it himself. Im very sorry this happened to you.

[Piedmont Sport]

We are currently trying 2 new companies that use the same large exemplar list but also check for embedded ink - age of paper and ink together - slant and correctness of time period autograph - type of item it was signed on {did it change the sig.} - Object evaluation as well as many other issues that seem to always come up. The drawback is the time to get your item back - 3-4 weeks - / For any buyer or seller you may want to stay away from a dealer who has a large inventory ungraded - but says i'll get it certed - and the item gets done in 30 seconds - I think thats what upset the Ali owner - how can you tell in 5 seconds without examing the item that was done 16 years ago - not to say autographs done 100 years ago - People are buying the cert and not the sig. - trust me many a dealer has said the same thing.