What mgrs/exec's/umps would you consider future HOFers?

[ctownboy]

What most of you seem to be forgetting is that the Commissioner's Office put PED's on the banned list of substances back in 1993. It was the Player's Association who would NOT go along with banning these substances in the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Because of this, the Owners didn't want to start a fight and possibly cause a strike.

It was ONLY when Congress got involved and started talking about the anti-trust issues did the Player's Association agree to do something about PED's. At first, it was only weak penalties for players failing a drug test but then the penalties were increased after Congress was lied to.

As far as Baker goes, my main point about him is that he had advantages most other Manager's didn't have and STILL wasn't a consistant winner and never won a World Series.

As far as I can remember, from 1993 to 2006, both the Giants and the Cubs had team payrolls which were in the upper third of the NL each and every year. So, unlike Managers for the Pirates or Royals, Baker did NOT have the excuse of ownership NOT spending money on the teams he managed.

Also, Baker had a young-ish Barry Bonds. A guy who was one of the best players in all of baseball, who had won MVP Awards while in Pittsburgh and who won an MVP Award his first year in San Francisco (1993). So Baker also can not say his teams didn't have talent.

Yet, even with these advantages his teams were NOT consistant winners and did not make the Play-Offs. As I pointed out, his 1996 team had these advantages and finished with the second worst record in all of the NL while his 2006 team had a high team payroll and finished with hte WORST record in all fo the NL.

Joe Torre, Tony LaRussa and Bobby Cox had the advantages of teams with high payrolls and PED users but at least they won on a consistant basis, went to the Play-Offs fairly regularly and won some World Series with those advantages while also NOT finishing in last place. Baker can not say this.

In short, Torre, LaRussa and Cox might have underachieved with the advantages they were given but they did not fail with those advantages like Baker did.

So, if you want to keep those three out of the Hall of Fame for underachieving then go right ahead. But no one should EVER say Baker is a Hall of Fame Manager considering he had the SAME advantages as the other three but yet achieved considerably less. This is especially true when looking at his record AFTER PED use was banned.

David

[FrankWakefield]

First, there are too many folks already in the Hall who shouldn't have gotten in, so it is a diluted honor from what it was when I became interested in the game...

With that said, Joe Torre deserves to be enshrined. Now. To not enshrine a manager because he is managing or might return to managing is nonsense, to wait only creates a possibility of posthumous enshrinement. Don't wait.

Mr. Larussa is deserving. Other HOFers who were lawyers include Branch Rickey, Hughie Jennings, Happy Chandler, and John M. Ward.

I can live with Bobby Cox going in. Not excited about that, but it's tolerable.

Steinbrenner, a former convicted felon, has no business in the Hall. It is about all that he did. Shoeless Joe deserves to be right where he is, OUT. And I think Pete deserves to be in there any day he buys a ticket, as a licensee for the day, but not as an enshrined member. George should not be in. I think he'll be in one day because of New York pressure and bias. Lots of stuff that shouldn't happen happens, and Steinbrenner's induction will be one more of such.

Frank Navin would be a good addition. I doubt that he makes it in. Besides, they've dallied and now he's dead... In a well ordered world he'd have been inducted during his lifetime.

*And I edit to agree that Marvin Miller should be in the Hall. There are times that I think that what he set in motion has empowered players to the detriment of the game, but I recognize that he's made a significant impact upon the game, he may well have changed it to a greater extent than anyone other than Mr. Rickey and Jackie Robinson, and maybe half a dozen players.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Even if Torre knew, then no, it would not affect his stature in my eyes. I don't see snitching on his players as his role or responsibility. I blame the players and their union. Selig? I don't see how he is HOF worthy even apart from all the steroid stuff.

[Kenny Cole]

Fair enough. We just disagree.

[Wite3]

Someone who never gets mentioned it seems is Bill James...if you are talking contributions to baseball, James needs to be mentioned. Whether you think him a genius or ruining the game, he has had a massive influence over the years...put him and Marvin Miller in now.

Joshua

[7nohitter]

Umpire-Tim McClelland should get in.