What's this SGC rumor????

[barrysloate]

Pete- I can't say for sure why SGC makes fewer mistakes, but I've surmised that PSA simply has too many submissions and can't spend as much time with each card. If you have to work in an assembly line manner, you are going to make some mistakes.

[GoldenAge50s]

I would also say some of the graders may be poorly trained & lack any experience and obviously many times do not follow the procedure of having cards double-cked before holdering.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Here's the bottom line. I agree that both companies make mistakes. We all do - none of us are perfect. It's how we deal with those mistakes that matters (and says a lot about our character). From what I can tell, SGC owns up to their mistakes. They make a mistake, they admit it, they fix it and move on. That's the way it should be.

PSA on the other hand tries to cover up/hide their mistakes. They think they can sweep the problem under the rug by deleting a thread and it will go away - out of sight, out of mind, right?

Let me give you a great example of this. About 4 years ago there was a thread started on the PSA boards about a 1966 Topps Harmon Killebrew that was graded a PSA 10 being sold on eBay by a reputable dealer. Most agreed that the card looked like it probably shouldn't have graded over a 6/7. The case was not tampered with, so it was either a mechanical problem or a grading problem. It was quite a controversy on the boards. Anyway, rather than doing the right thing and making good on their buy-back guarantee, they removed the certification number from their data base. The seller was pretty pissed about it and rightfully so. I don't know if PSA ever compensated him for the card or not, but this is not how you handle problems.

I don't know about anybody else, but I've never had a problem just magically go away. Problems linger. The best way to deal with problems is to face them head on. There is absolutely nothing wrong with admitting you made a mistake. In fact, it shows a lot of character when you own up to your mistakes. However, I have never seen PSA own up to anything. When’s the last time they admitted they were wrong about something? Instead, they just try to shut up those making the noise.

Say what you want about PSA, but if your honest with yourself, then you know in your mind I am right. Even Jeff said in the Joe Orlando thread, “I think I'd have some respect for Joe if he didn't do all that he could to shut down any sort of public criticism of PSA. That doesn't suggest to me that he cares about fixing his company's problems.”

Again, we're all going to make mistakes. It's how you handle those mistakes that set you apart from others.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

When’s the last time they admitted they were wrong about something?

David- I agree with almost everything you said pertaining to mistakes. God knows I make my share. That being said I do know that PSA bought back a fake Sporting News Ruth from Andy Baran, quite some time ago. Also, I would bet a friendly dollar that if someone brings that blue Fro-Joy to Joe O, he will make it right. best regards

[smtjoy]

I use both and have been overall happy with them. If I had to choose one it would be SGC mainly based on accuracy and consistency of grading the cards I collect, exhibits. They both make mistakes but I have seen far more exhibit mistakes by PSA than SGC. I was involved with an ebay seller who was selling 8 high grade PSA exhibits a year ago that were all fake, I also own a fake PSA graded exhibit from 2 years ago that I just held onto because I only had $20 bucks into it. I have never seen one of these fakes graded by SGC and hope not to as its far to easy to tell them apart. I have also seen way too many times PSA messes up the years on exhibits, this has been to my benefit a number of times as I buy them then cross them over to the correct year, its usually 1923-24's listed as 1921's and 1926 listed as 1925, 1927, or 1928. In 7 years I have purchased over 10 of these and seen double that number mis graded by PSA, in the same time frame I might have seen only 3-4 from SGC, big difference.

I am concerned with all the recent turnover and lack of merger announcements over at SGC and really hope it improves in the near future, I do still believe they have the top graders and at the end of the day that is most important to me.

[tbob]

I think BVG doesn't get the credit they deserve for accuracy in grading. I have always used SGC with prewar cards but lately have started leaning toward using BVG more. That said, I disagree with Barry and others with regard to the sale prices of comparable SGC and PSA cards. I hate to admit it but even with pre-war cards I think if you are selling, PSA is the way to go. I think PSA cards sell for more although I prefer SGC. I hate the "slip sliding" cards in PSA holders and love the black distinctive format of SGC cardsbut I just think PSA cards sell for more.

[tbob]

I also think, rightly or wrongly, that if you have pre-war cards with beautiful fronts and slight paper damage or writing on the back, and you plan on eventually selling them, PSA is the way to go. I have just about had my fill of those great looking pre-war cards, even with blank backs, which have very tiny paper or writing imperfections getting downgraded all the way to "10s" or "20s" by SGC. But at least I know going in that they are going to hammer them. It is not at all uncommon to take one of these "10s", crack it out, and resubmit to PSA and get a 7 MK.

[Rickyy]

I guess I've been lucky so far...My experiences with PSA and SGC have all been positive experiences counting some 200+ submissions ....the grading has been satisfactory to my eye....with SGC leaning slightly toward more stricter and consistent grading across the board. The customer service with each has been without any problems... PSA contacted me right away via email for a error I made on the form that I didn't catch....SGC mislabled one item and corrected it without hesitation...and in some cases they shipped items PRIOR to the actual turnaround date....

Ricky Y

[T206Collector]

I will once again repeat my theory -- a lot of PSA graded pre-war cards you see for sale are for sale because SGC wouldn't cross them over.

My percentage of blind PSA purchases -- where I made a purchase decision based on a scan or a representation as to grade, but didn't hold the card in my hands -- where the card had an obvious defect upon receipt has gone way up over the last several years.

Put another way, I've seen tons of PSA 5 T206s that had wrinkles or creases, or were obviously trimmed. I've not seen an SGC 60 T206 with a wrinkle or a crease, or that was obviously trimmed.

Say what you want about JSA's ownership interest, the main graders are all still there. And they sometimes come out from behind the curtain to chat with customers about their grading practices. Very educational.

Finally, I had amazing service from SGC at this year's East Coast National. I got a ton of stuff done with their on-site grading service, and a strip card that couldn't be done on-site got done the next day and I received it in the mail today -- $13 total, including encapsulation and shipping!

Keep up the good work SGC.

[Big Ben]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Pete- I can't say for sure why SGC makes fewer mistakes, but I've surmised that PSA simply has too many submissions and can't spend as much time with each card. If you have to work in an assembly line manner, you are going to make some mistakes.

I very much agree with this post Barry. Here are my personal perceptions from dealing with graded cards for about 2 and a half years. I am curious to see what more experienced collectors think.

PSA- like the registry, and the .5 scale. I think that PSA's grading is very lenient on T206 Cobb cards. I haven't formed an opinion with SGC's grading of Cobb cards for now.

SGC- grading seems to be conservative which is a good thing... I think that SGC is too lenient with centering and should utilize a system similar to PSA on cards with marks, or paper loss... Unless I am missing things, SGC needs a data base registry for individual cards on their site ASAP! The lack of an easily accessible card registry by SGC really annoys me!!!!! Love SGC's holders!

Beckett- like the registry and the holder... The grading and their scale is way too inconsistent for me...

Regardless of grading company, I look at the card first and then the grade before making a purchasing decision.

[Jewish-collector]

I was glad to hear that Leon & Joe Orlando finally met at this years National.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Here's a nice 1969 Mickey Mantle PSA 6. How can anybody defend this?



From this auction. At least the seller's description is honest. Props to the seller.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Topps-M...#ht_500wt_1180

Way to go PSA

[DixieBaseball]

I was at the National and used PSA and SGC multiple times for on site grading and both passed with flying colors. It did appear however that PSA had more support staff to service their customer's where as SGC seemed under staffed for influx in customer traffic, but when I was there my service was solid. (I observed a few customer's a little frustrated at having to wait...) God Bless you Earl!

[dwinters]

I was at the national and two great things happened: I made my first submission to SGC and I got to meet Leon.

While both were noteworthy events, I was extremely happy to get this back from them. It did take some convincing and some documentation, but SGC was top notch with excellent customer service.

SGC just makes all your stuff look so much better.....

[cwazzy]

GREAT card, Dennis! Look at those corners, David. That got a 6 and those corners are WAY more rounded then the Mantle...














Yes, I am kidding.

[thejuanscards]

The 1969 Mantle PSA 6 pictured is mine. Like I state in my ebay description, I expected no higher than a 3 on the card. I had little into it, and only graded it to make an extra 25% or so. This card was in a lot of 85 cards that I graded, and the most came back where they should have. In this case, another card, a 1969 Ron Santo, should have been a 6, but was slabbed as a 3. The Mantle and Santo were 3 or 4 serial numbers apart, not right next to each other.....but I am guessing that somehow they got switched. They might as well take the Santo out of the database, because I cracked it on the day I received it back. The Mantle just makes me sick, though. You can see the corner wear in the picture, but there is also a very obvious crease on the back....and the back has seen better days. I am always hoping for better grades......but this one.....John

[GRock]

I sent a sub to SGC just before the national and it didn't log in for a week. I called asking about it and was told all hands were on deck at the show and all would be taken care of. It was a 10 day turnaround sub that shipped in 9 days with the national confusion. Grades were absolutely on par with previous subs from the same set.