American Beautys on ebay

[steve B]

They've got to stop allowing this. And stop allowing the cheats like ATX840 to even make offers off ebay. It hurts the seller, it hurts Ebay, and the rest of us that follow the rules. It also hurts other sellers. Plus offering something for bid is a binding contract acording to Ebay.

Most of us don't have a huge hobby budget. And when something like those ABs comes up we have to not bid on other stuff, or bid less on some others.

I was watching them too, And held off from bidding on about 10-15 other things since they were listed. Not all cards, but here are the card sellers who probably lost a few dollars because of their cheating.
buythatcard
jasonb9206
1950 browns
runlike
tntriley1
luckyjguy
Jerryjersey
I'm not sure how many of those other items I'd have won or been the underbidder on, but I didn't bid on 6 of them, and bid far less on one.

Steve Birmingham

[Matthew H]

If I see a card I want up for auction on eBay these days, I always ask if there is a BIN price for the card. Not because I want to buy it that way, but because there have been so many times that a card I want disappears. I am always relieved when I get a message back saying no.

[3-2-count]

Just my opinion, but if you see something you really need on the Bay it would be in your best interest to email the seller and ask if they end auctions early just so you don't get burned. I sure do. If they answer with a definitive "NO" you have nothing to worry about. If you receive any other reply other than that you'd better be willing to play the same game or risk losing the opportunity. My two cents!!

[tbob]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Just my opinion, but if you see something you really need on the Bay it would be in your best interest to email the seller and ask if they end auctions early just so you don't get burned. I sure do. If they answer with a definitive "NO" you have nothing to worry about. If you receive any other reply other than that you'd better be willing to play the same game or risk losing the opportunity. My two cents!!

Absolutely, Tony! Agree 100%. I've learned that lesson the hard way. You HAVE to do that if there is a card you really want to bid on and try to win because if you don't find out from the seller that you are going to absolutely have the chance to bid, it will often times disappear.

[aquarius31]

I was tempted not to respond to this thread but the previous comments have me going now. Even if you win through a BIN on ebay you're not assured that you win. Here's a wonderful story to share with all of you.

1) I used a BIN on a lot of 2 T206's which had a very good price
(purchased within 2 minutes of listing being posted)
2) Ask seller if he will combine shipping and receive a response that there was an error and cards shouldn't have been listed
3) Send a reply to seller trying to get more details but he's not clear with me so I tell him if it not's a mistake or if he plans to repost to let me know (thought I'd give him the benefit of the doubt as an honest mistake)
4) See a listing on B/S/T today for those exact same cards which I purchased through BIN but were "listed in error"
5) Find out that a side deal off of EBay was done for the cards at a higher price
6) Frustrated but agree with off-Ebay buyer on 1 of the cards on the amount that was paid off ebay (higher than the original BIN option for both cards)
7) The second card sold to another buyer before I could purchase that one

Due to "non-bidding" buyers making side deals with sellers on ebay after auction close and those sellers agreeing to those side deals people get screwed. What should have been an easy BIN transaction become one where I ended up negotiating with the "new" buyer for 1 card and losing out on the other card not to mention that the price was higher since the seller was able to obtain more from the off ebay deal.

I think I'm going to go onto ebay now and try to see if there are some recently closed low BINs where I can persuade the seller to sell it to me instead for a slightly higher price.

[teetwoohsix]

George, that sucks.

What a crappy business model. Unethical.

Sincerely, Clayton

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by steve B

Plus offering something for bid is a binding contract acording to Ebay.

only if it ends up being the winning bid

[vintagetoppsguy]

Some of y’all aren’t understanding that for a lot of dealers, eBay is just another way to advertise – no different than their personal website, a brick and mortar store, message board B/S/T, etc. In other words, they may have the same card listed on multiple sites. Their goal is to sell the card, they don’t care how/where it sells. A lot of dealers will list a card for sale on eBay, but at the same time it also resides in their showcase for sale. If someone comes into their store and purchases the card, they remove the card from eBay. I’ve also been at shows and witnessed the same thing many, many times where I’ve bought a card from a dealer, then watched the dealer immediately remove the listing from eBay. I’m not defending the seller here, but it is what it is. Besides, no one really knows why they cards were removed from eBay in the first place. Everybody is just assuming the seller ended the auction early for an off-line offer. What if the cards were lost or stolen and he HAD to remove the listings?

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Everybody is just assuming the seller ended the auction early for an off-line offer. What if the cards were lost or stolen and he HAD to remove the listings?

True no one really knows the real reason except the seller and the buyer (if applicable), but the ebay listing actually says "This listing was ended by the seller because the item was sold."

Other listings ended early say "item is no longer available" or something to that effect.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

In other words, they may have the same card listed on multiple sites.

I personally don't see anything wrong with that, as long as they don't end a listing that has been bid upon.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by tonyo

I personally don't see anything wrong with that, as long as they don't end a listing that has been bid upon.

Things happen in life. Cards get lost, stolen or even catch fire:

http://www.ohio.com/news/fire-hits-s...store-1.204249

Bids or not, how is the seller supposed to complete the transaction if he no longer possesses the card?

[t206blogcom]

It appears the seller also ended several other high end raw t206 cards (I was watching them!)... Disappointed I didn't get the chance to win any of these or the AB's, but life goes on. More $ to buy other cards...

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Things happen in life. Cards get lost, stolen or even catch fire:

http://www.ohio.com/news/fire-hits-s...store-1.204249

Bids or not, how is the seller supposed to complete the transaction if he no longer possesses the card?

Well I agree with you there, that's life....... I suppose I should have qualified: I don't see anything wrong with listing in multiple places, as long as they don't end a listing that already has bids, just because they sell the card in another outlet.

Which apparently is the case in this instance since the ebay listing actually says "This listing was ended by the seller because the item was sold."




I suppose it is possible that the seller ended the listing early and sold to the high bidder in every case, which I think would be ok as well.....

[Bigb13]

Besides the AB's atx840 got the guy to sell him the others. Rob

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Some of y’all aren’t understanding that for a lot of dealers, eBay is just another way to advertise – no different than their personal website, a brick and mortar store, message board B/S/T, etc. In other words, they may have the same card listed on multiple sites.

I think there is a distinction between listing a card for "sale" on multiple sites, and listing a card for "auction" multiple times. It's nice to be able to list a sale item in multiple forums and as long as you are diligent enough to manage that (or utilize software to do it for you); it's optimal for the seller and a fair process to buyers. Once a card is put up for auction, I don't think it should be listed anywhere else, however.

[Matthew H]

[steve B]

Try putting you name out her Mr Hollywood. Or go cheat with some underage bimbo from the beach.

Originally Posted by Matthew H

[Leon]

Originally Posted by steve B

Try putting you name out her Mr Hollywood. Or go cheat with some underage bimbo from the beach.

I would have to agree....if you are going to rattle someone's cage you need to have your full name by your post. Personally, my name is by every post. And if you say, but I don't want my name to end up in the dreaded Google searches then just cover up/change the pattern of your name, such as .... Leon Luc*key....or Bill Smit$

[Vol]

Originally Posted by steve B

Try putting you name out her Mr Hollywood. Or go cheat with some underage bimbo from the beach.

It is okay to laugh a little. Y so serious?

[autograf]

I go with the Leon theory..........If there's a bid, I won't make an offer. I make offers from time to time but I'd say about 20% are accepted and 80% of the time, I'm told that the seller wishes to let the auction play out. I don't usually lowball anyone. I try to make a fair offer (maybe not the BEST) and let the chips fall where they may. I've gotten a few decent items that way. If you don't think tons of other people are doing it, you're not being realistic..........

[pgellis]

I really don't understand why a seller would end an auction early for an offer. I know that some buyers try to bully sellers into ending their auctions early. I have heard that some have said things like: "If you don't sell to me right now for $X.XX, then I guarantee I won't continue to bid on your auction and you will lose money on it."

Come on really? If a seller is getting bids and offers outside of eBay, then why don't they realize that they have a desirable item and let the auction run its course?

This hasn't happened to me with pre-war cards (yet), but it has happened a few times with Leather Football Helmets, which I also collect. One helmet that I was really interested in last fall ended early. I contacted the seller and told him that I was really interested. I didn't ask him to end the auction early, rather I asked him to let it go the distance and that I guaranteed him that I would be the high bidder and he agreed. A day later he ended the auction for another buyer for about $300 - $500 less than I told him that I guaranteed him. I had to scratch my head.

It happened again last week with a leather football helmet. Someone got to the seller and had him end the auction early on the first day of the listing.

Don't sellers get it? Wouldn't an auction setting, where there is interest, guarantee the seller the most money 99 times out of 100? I don't know how many times and how many hundreds of dollars I have seen left on the table when sellers end auctions early.

[glchen]

I've been on both sides of this, and frankly I think it's all fair game. The seller should have complete freedom to end the auction early if he chooses. There is a reason why sellers do this, and that is that the offline offer is higher than the starting price (or current price) of the auction, and the seller believes that the price is fair or better than fair. I had this happen to me recently where a buyer messaged me with an offer that was at least 10X the current auction price of the card. The seller wanted the card badly, and didn't want to wait around on the chance that he might get outbid. I frankly thought this offer was at least twice what the card was likely to end at, so I obviously agreed to the deal, and ended the auction early.

I hadn't known that it's ethical to provide offers to sellers if there are no bids and it's gentleman's code to not do so if there are no bids. A few months ago, I lost out on a Heading Home Babe Ruth card b/c the seller made an off ebay deal while the auction was going on. The auction had a high starting price, so basically I was only willing to go the starting price + one increment. Therefore, I put a snipe on the card, but I wasn't willing to put an early bid on the card b/c I didn't want to "show my hand" to other bidders. Again, I learned my lesson here, but I don't fault the seller or the buyer who made the deal. I learned that if I really want a card, I better make it known to the seller to not sell the card off-bay w/o at least consulting me and allow me to counter. This is only if I really, really want the card, b/c you never know if the seller would make a phantom buyer to get you to increase your offer.

Ebay is already doing things to try to prevent off-ebay deals, so be careful what you wish for. As part of the Fall seller rules, you're not supposed to put your email address or other web address in your ebay listing. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future, ebay says that messages on ebay are ebay property and that they reserve the right to scan the messages, and if they detect off-ebay negotiations going on, they can remove Top Rated Seller listing or suspend your account. Obviously, there would be an outcry if this happens, but this is ebay we're talking about. They're trying to make money, and they're doing all kinds of things to make more.