The Cincinnati Wagner "Graded"

[barrysloate]

If ACA Grading should happen to read this board, I have a question for them:

I think they made a very bold assertion by calling the Edwards-Cobb specimen an unreleased version of the T206 Honus Wagner. This being the case, and since all grading companies need to stand behind such statements, I would like to know what exhaustive research the company made to reach this conclusion? What libraries did you folks visit, what primary and secondary sources did you use, what internet sites did you find, and did you study in detail the records of the ATC? I imagine to reach such a conclusion, no amount of time was spared in doing your research.

I ask you this because I am thinking of making the owners a very significant offer for their card. But in order to do so with the appropriate level of confidence, I really do need to see documentation. I realize we may be talking about a couple of hundred pages that will need to be photocopied, so please know that I will reimburse you for all your costs.

So if you are reading this, I thank you in advance for all your time and trouble. I realize you must all be exhausted from the weeks of research you put in to come with your conclusion, but I think we can all agree it was well worth it.

Look forward to receiving a packet of documents from your company. Thanks again.

[byrone]

Found this interesting, from the Hockey side of things

...notice of fake Bobby Orr cards...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/38176...Bobby+Orr+Card

and then

...current Ebay listing for a (graded) fake Bobby Orr card

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tchlink:top:en


Conclusion: Get a fake card into a slab is Priority #1

[novakjr]

Honest question here. Clearly this card is not authentic and will never be valued anywhere near the value of a legit Wagner, But would this particular card hold any value based on it's background and story? Like I said, it's not a legit Wagner, but just for fun, wouldn't it be interesting to say that you own "The Infamous Cincinnati Wagner"? For $20-50, I'd probably bite just to say that.. I'm wondering what some of you other members would pay, just to be the one to put this mess to rest?

[rjackson44]

its a fake omg

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

If ACA Grading should happen to read this board, I have a question for them:

Barry, ACA Grading probably is run out of someone's mother's basement!

[barrysloate]

Well Jeff, I want to know where they come off encapsulating a card that they know is bad; how did they come to fabricate this silly story about it being a pre-release version of a real Wagner; and has anyone on this board actually seen a card graded by ACA?

I'm really tired of seeing people with no skills and no credentials whatsoever passing themselves off as experts. It's plagued the autograph side of the hobby, and now it's becoming part of vintage baseball cards too.

[Runscott]

My guess is that the Cincinnati guys got someone to agree to grade it, in exchange for a percentage of the final selling price. It could be one of their friends or some unscrupulous person who approached them first. In any event, I'm sure it's not a legitimate grading company.

Why would this surprise anyone? We've seen grading company abominations now for many years. It isn't going to stop.

[Rob L]

Check out their website. Autograph experts too!! Jeez!!

http://www.acagrading.com/en/index.htm

[E93]

Here is a question for the lawyers here. Does the grading company have any responsibility for authenticating an obviously fake card? Can they get sued if someone bought the card on their assurance that it was authentic? I suppose it depends on the way the grading company presents what they are doing. I am curious what their liability is. My guess is not much, that they are just offering opinions and that their only real value is the perceived respect they garner in the hobby.
JimB

[barrysloate]

Jim- what I find interesting here is ACA did much more than merely render a verdict of genuine or not genuine. They took the bold step of calling it an unreleased proof. And that was the point of my sarcastic post #29: exactly what research went into this rather unique designation? There is nothing that any advanced collector on this board sees that would support their claim, so I would assume anyone making it would be prepared to defend such a determination. This of course doesn't answer your question about their liability, just my own thoughts on the matter.