VCP rant

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Bosox Blair

It is not perfect. You want perfection? Where will you get that?

Nobody is asking for or expecting perfection. Sure, some mistakes are going to be made. But when 4 of the 5 cards I checked did not show up in VCP, that's a major problem. Sorry if you don't get that. Also, if Bobby would have responded back and acknowledged the mistake and took action to correct the mistake, this thread probably wouldn't have been started.

Originally Posted by Bosox Blair

All this started over unreported BINs? My view - what a joke! I completely disregard BIN results.

VCP's business it to record actual sales, no matter if it is a BIN or not. If they want to exclude BINs then so be it, but they should state that. I could care less if you disregard BINs or not. The fact of the matter is that they are still transactions and should be recorded by VCP as we are paying for that information.

[glchen]

I think that if BIN's were included, most people would want them excluded from the average VCP pricing.

[Exhibitman]

Reading the email stream above, do you guys [Bobby, Seth, Leon] realize how it looks to potential consignors and bidders and customers that the controversy is over a $100 access fee?

[xdrx]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Reading the email stream above, do you guys [Bobby, Seth, Leon] realize how it looks to potential consignors and bidders and customers that the controversy is over a $100 access fee?

+1. It's one thing for a member here to vent about something, but a very different thing for business people to publicly post their correspondence and air things out for all to see. Transparency can be overrated at times.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by glchen

I think that if BIN's were included, most people would want them excluded from the average VCP pricing.

I would, if not I would want them highlighted so I could exclude them

[T206.org]

To note, B&L is still listed on the homepage of VCP, under "Want List Auction Alerts".

[Leon]

Originally Posted by T206.org

To note, B&L is still listed on the homepage of VCP, under "Want List Auction Alerts".

We had VCP downloads previously but never paid before.
I don't think we want to pay a company to use our data. Other companies handle their affairs their ways. Scott nor myself have anything against VCP. I still use it and like it.

[slidekellyslide]

Let me get this straight..VCP wants your info, and they want you to pay $100 so they can have that info? That seems odd to me.

[BobbyVCP]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Let me get this straight..VCP wants your info, and they want you to pay $100 so they can have that info? That seems odd to me.

It's not the info I am making reference to it is the 3500+ Want Lists our members will get notices to go to BL and bid on the auction. This is a valuable asset for any auction house to take advantage of to increase traffic and attention to items.

[joebrandon1977]

From what I am reading....

VCP wants data
B&L will give data, but...
B&L utilizes a vendor that will charge B&L $100 to turn on code
B&L isn't interested in paying for that
VCP suggests that B&L change to another vendor that will not charge
B&L is loyal to their existing vendor and is not interested in changing

End Result = Standoff with no data feed from B&L to VCP

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Let me get this straight..VCP wants your info, and they want you to pay $100 so they can have that info? That seems odd to me.

It looks to me like VCP wants the info, but B&L's webhost wants to charge VCP $100 for the feed to get the info.

Looks like an issue between B&L and their webhost, not with VCP.

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Let me get this straight..VCP wants your info, and they want you to pay $100 so they can have that info? That seems odd to me.

+1

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Nobody is asking for or expecting perfection. Sure, some mistakes are going to be made. But when 4 of the 5 cards I checked did not show up in VCP, that's a major problem. Sorry if you don't get that. Also, if Bobby would have responded back and acknowledged the mistake and took action to correct the mistake, this thread probably wouldn't have been started.



VCP's business it to record actual sales, no matter if it is a BIN or not. If they want to exclude BINs then so be it, but they should state that. I could care less if you disregard BINs or not. The fact of the matter is that they are still transactions and should be recorded by VCP as we are paying for that information.

"We" are not paying for that information. Most people with any sense disregard BINs entirely. Sorry if you don't get that.

Really? Their business is to record sales? Where are all the results from the tables at the National? They track auctions, which is what matters. The rest is just noise.

But you are right - you should cancel VCP. I'm sure your four BIN transactions are accurately reflected in the current SMR or other resource...hahahahahaha!

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by Bosox Blair

Most people with any sense disregard BINs entirely. Sorry if you don't get that.

Blair with all do respect I do pay attention to BIN's on the Bay and know of a few key sellers in the market who are actually board members here who have their product priced very fair. I have also bought many a card at a BIN price which was priced accurately. If these are sales made I definitely want to know about them. Agreed that many if not most Ebay sellers display their product at ridiculous prices, but for the ones who do not it is unfair to group them with those high priced sellers you speak of. My two cents!!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Blair with all do respect I do pay attention to BIN's on the Bay and know of a few key sellers in the market who are actually board members here who have their product priced very fair. I have also bought many a card at a BIN price which was priced accurately. If these are sales made I definitely want to know about them. Agreed that many if not most Ebay sellers display their product at ridiculous prices, but for the ones who do not it is unfair to group them with those high priced sellers you speak of. My two cents!!

Agreed. I understand people say that BINs are easy to manipulate and should not be included, but so are auctions (shill bidding). Where do you draw the line? VCP’s business is to capture all eBay sales – auction or BIN – and the user can take that information and make their own buying/selling decisions.

On the card in question, I paid $750 and I felt good about the purchase. Did I overpay? Perhaps some might thinks so. If so, it wasn’t by much. I thought it was fair considering that 6 of the 10 sales that VCP recorded sold for what I paid or more (SGC 50 and PSA 4 combined). Either way, the sale should have been captured.

[barrysloate]

One problem I see with VCP using BIN's is in a situation where a seller has a card priced far above current market, and for whatever reason a collector chooses to buy it. Since VCP is supposed to reflect the market, is that BIN necessarily reflective of it? It's possible that that transaction was double what any similar card might sell for, and would therefore not be useful information. I'm not actually sure myself about this, just think it's a fair point.

[jp1216]

I'm all for VCP showing BIN prices, but only using actual auctions to determine averages.

[vintagecpa]

I've subscribed to VCP off and on for several years. Although they aren't perfect in terms of capturing every sale, they run a very nice business. I don't think anyone makes a purchasing decision based simply on VCP average. There is often one BIN or other auction sale that can greatly skew the average, especially with cards that don't have many sales. When I am thinking of purchasing a card, I do appreciate seeing the wide range a card might sell for. You will especially see this when looking at the PSA 1 cards.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

One problem I see with VCP using BIN's is in a situation where a seller has a card priced far above current market, and for whatever reason a collector chooses to buy it. Since VCP is supposed to reflect the market, is that BIN necessarily reflective of it? It's possible that that transaction was double what any similar card might sell for, and would therefore not be useful information. I'm not actually sure myself about this, just think it's a fair point.

Barry, I think the counterpoint would be that with an auction if you have two buyers who place a "top all" high max bid and the item then goes for way more than it is "really worth". There is never going to be asolution that works for everyone nor one that even works for most, but VCP is what it is and if there is value to the customer in that then that is all there needs to be, I suppose.

[terjung]

Data is data. It should be up to the person using the data to interpret and to filter what is important to them. Categorically removing (or not including) valid sales such as BINs biases the data.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

One problem I see with VCP using BIN's is in a situation where a seller has a card priced far above current market, and for whatever reason a collector chooses to buy it. Since VCP is supposed to reflect the market, is that BIN necessarily reflective of it? It's possible that that transaction was double what any similar card might sell for, and would therefore not be useful information. I'm not actually sure myself about this, just think it's a fair point.

Barry,

Indeed it is a fair point. However, if it was a legitimate sale, shouldn't it still be captured no matter the price?

Let's turn your scenario around. Let's say there is a 1967 Topps PSA 10 common with a pop of only 3 and two set registry guys get in a bidding war over it on ebay and the cards sells for $500. However, the last two only sold for $100. Should that sale be counted? In other words, just becasue two idiots drive up the price of a card significantly over fair market value, do you not count it?

Edited to say: Although worded differently, Rhett beat me to the same point.

[barrysloate]

I agree David with your example. In your case, the BIN's you bought were within a reasonable market range, and reflect what you were willing to pay for the cards. I guess in the end it's Bobby's decision how he wants to gather and use the data.

Edited to add I see Rhett's point too. Bobby has to set the rules for his site, and it's fair to ask him why he doesn't use the BIN's.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Blair with all do respect I do pay attention to BIN's on the Bay and know of a few key sellers in the market who are actually board members here who have their product priced very fair. I have also bought many a card at a BIN price which was priced accurately. If these are sales made I definitely want to know about them. Agreed that many if not most Ebay sellers display their product at ridiculous prices, but for the ones who do not it is unfair to group them with those high priced sellers you speak of. My two cents!!

Hi Tony,

As you know, my friend, I have the greatest of respect for you. You are one of the good guys. Hope all is well with you!

The other side of the BIN problem is the seller who doesn't know the market and lists his card for far less than the real market value. The card will likely be bought in under an hour. So what? Can I get another one for that price? No. Will anyone lower their price if I tell them one guy listed that card cheap last week and it sold to the first guy who saw it? No.

To say that a service that fails to tell me about a few of these transactions is "a joke" is...well...a joke (that is directed to the OP, not you).

Cheers,

Blair

[3-2-count]

Hi Blair,
Hope all is well. Constructive conversation is healthy even if we disagree my friend. That being said the name calling you've received in this thread by the other N54 member is totally uncalled for and unacceptable. I don't go for that crap either. Happy Collecting!!

Very Best, Tony

[BobbyVCP]

We worked with both Simple and Create in supplying both of them with the format in order to supply VCP with the feed from the auction houses. We did this in order for the auction houses to take advantage of our large membership Want lists. We can just as easily create a code to go and grab the information from the auction houses after the auction has ended and post to VCP. We feel it is a slap in our face that one of them choose to charge us for something we provided them to use to benefit their customers and provide to future ones as well as a selling tool.