Colossal Auctions?

ruth-gehrig · #1 10-30-2011, 05:12 AM

yeah as someone has already brought up, if it's worked for another auction company why wouldn't it work for this one?

travrosty · #2 10-30-2011, 01:57 PM

A few dealers I know were forced to either get ALL their stuff either certed by one of the three companies on ebay's pre-approved list or else they could not list the items on ebay. either pay for the sticker or get off ebay. it has happened.

RichardSimon · #3 10-30-2011, 02:06 PM

I would assume and just guess that those companies might have been selling questionable items and ebay made their selling conditional on approval by one of the authentication companies.
Everybody here knows I have no love lost for the authentication companies but lets keep our facts straight here.

thetruthisoutthere · #4 10-30-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travrosty

A few dealers I know were forced to either get ALL their stuff either certed by one of the three companies on ebay's pre-approved list or else they could not list the items on ebay. either pay for the sticker or get off ebay. it has happened.

Travis, maybe those "few dealers" you refer to can come here on Net54 and tell us their story.

travrosty · #5 10-30-2011, 03:37 PM

there is another related point that is important, and that anything that gets a psa or jsa cert cannot be booted off of ebay, even if it is obviously fake. And that is just as concerning as anything else.

I have seen both a jsa and psa certed 8 x 10 signed joe louis photograph, (400 dollar plus items), both totally bogus, that wouldnt get taken off of ebay because they have a coa from an ebay pre-approved authenticator. i could show them my joe louis signature study all day long and go point by point and ebay isn't going to do anything.

that's a big problem too. so even more problematic than items requiring jsa or psa to sell on ebay are items that are jsa or psa but fake but can't be taken off ebay. ebay is a terribly flawed system.

RichardSimon · #6 10-30-2011, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travrosty

there is another related point that is important, and that anything that gets a psa or jsa cert cannot be booted off of ebay, even if it is obviously fake. And that is just as concerning as anything else.

I have seen both a jsa and psa certed 8 x 10 signed joe louis photograph, (400 dollar plus items), both totally bogus, that wouldnt get taken off of ebay because they have a coa from an ebay pre-approved authenticator. i could show them my joe louis signature study all day long and go point by point and ebay isn't going to do anything.

that's a big problem too. so even more problematic than items requiring jsa or psa to sell on ebay are items that are jsa or psa but fake but can't be taken off ebay. ebay is a terribly flawed system.

You are unfortunately correct.

slidekellyslide · #7 10-30-2011, 09:08 PM

I've sold more than a few autographs on ebay...at least a dozen minor league team signed balls, a 1930's Brooklyn Dodgers team signed ball, a Kennesaw Landis signed document, and signed letter, a Lefty Gomez single signed ball...NEVER have I had a single one of them certified by anyone. I simply guaranteed they would get a cert or your money back...never got a single autograph back.

drc · #8 10-30-2011, 09:58 PM

For honest sellers of authentic autographs on eBay, the following go a long way: 1) Big clear images-- give bidders (many knowledgeable, many knowing what a real versus fake Nolan Ryan or Dizzy Dean or Joe DiMaggio signature looks like) a good look and give bidders confidence in you as they see you're wiling to give an up close look, 2) Good return/authenticity guarantee. Big clear images can never be underestimated. A good feedback/reputation as a seller also helps the cause.

Fuddjcal · #9 11-07-2011, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travrosty

there is another related point that is important, and that anything that gets a psa or jsa cert cannot be booted off of ebay, even if it is obviously fake. And that is just as concerning as anything else.

I have seen both a jsa and psa certed 8 x 10 signed joe louis photograph, (400 dollar plus items), both totally bogus, that wouldnt get taken off of ebay because they have a coa from an ebay pre-approved authenticator. i could show them my joe louis signature study all day long and go point by point and ebay isn't going to do anything.

that's a big problem too. so even more problematic than items requiring jsa or psa to sell on ebay are items that are jsa or psa but fake but can't be taken off ebay. ebay is a terribly flawed system.

that is disgusting and most likely happening more than anyone would like to admit with many other items at these 2 respected companies.

They really need to go back and correct many of the mistakes past and present when they blatently know they have messed up. Infact all authenticators should practice this policy, but sadly no one does....

travrosty · #10 11-07-2011, 12:54 PM

Case in point.

http://www.fighttoys.com/Firpononauthentic.htm

If it ever goes to ebay, good luck getting it off. And I heard but can't confirm that all the authenticators at JSA look at each item and they all have to pass it for it to pass. What is going on? When you click on the link, the firpo on the bottom left (circa 1958) is one i obtained myself from a friend who lives in Buenos Aires, Argentina, so it's directly from Firpo's stomping grounds. Show us your exemplars you used to authenticate this item, Mr. Spence. I want to see your Firpo signatures. Please discontinue boxing.

When I first saw this Firpo, I figured it had to be an April Fools joke, or a Halloween prank. But it has a valid JSA cert, which is equivalent to getting a passport and visa, ready to travel the world.

It's insulting to people who study boxing signatures and it would look the same to baseball collectors as calling the following Babe Ruth "authentic." When i see this Firpo, that's what I see, the boxing equivalent to this Ruth ball. Why do they bother with boxing?

I don't know. They don't seem to have the phone number of someone who can figure out this Luis Firpo, which ends up going to auction. And they aren't autographs on the fence in my opinion, not questionables that could go either way. They are obviously no good, but how can you get this through to Spence so he can understand the gravity and width, depth, and breadth of the situation?

Now if Morales name were in place of Spence, all the guys would pile on and say "yeah, get him!" (That's fine, I don't have a problem with that), but evidently JSA is above reproach. The third rail of autograph authentication? Why is it so sacrosanct to ignore the criticism and NOT hold these guys feet to the fire and demand explanations when they authenticate like this, and instead just make excuses for them? (My favorite is that "hey they just make a few mistakes like anybody else. They authenticate a lot of autographs. If you only knew how many autographs they cert.") Maybe they should do a little less then.

That's attitude seems fine if you don't collect boxing, but if they start doing this to YOUR favorite sport, then you might think different.

They don't even make excuses for themselves. They just say nothing and hope it goes away?

This is all my opinion, and if people want to use JSA, more power to you. I think people are scared to say anything about the top two authentication outfits because they think they need their certs to sell.

(I didn't make the ruth ball, it came off the internet, looks like the sig is computer generated.)

Travis Roste

perezfan · #11 11-07-2011, 01:47 PM

The difference is that 99 - 100% of Morales' stuff is bad. No one in their right mind (on this board) would buy a piece that he's authenticated.

What you presented represents a tiny fraction of what PSA and Spence have authenticated. Most would estimate that they are right 95% of the time (give or take a few percentage points). Granted that 5% potential error rate represents a large number of items. And I am sure you are all over this 5% segment, as you have an apparent "axe to grind".

But to answer your question, the outrage you're seeking doesn't occur- because the vast majority of PSA/Spence authentications are correct. There is a massive difference between 5% (PSA/Spence) and 100% (Morales).

Nobody is above reproach... Spence's Firpo authentication is awful. No argument there. But for you to compare the two outfits in the same breath is preposterous. Best of luck with this interesting mission

Scott Garner · #12 11-07-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travrosty

Case in point.

http://www.fighttoys.com/Firpononauthentic.htm

If it ever goes to ebay, good luck getting it off. And I heard but can't confirm that all the authenticators at JSA look at each item and they all have to pass it for it to pass. What is going on? When you click on the link, the firpo on the bottom left (circa 1958) is one i obtained myself from a friend who lives in Buenos Aires, Argentina, so it's directly from Firpo's stomping grounds. Show us your exemplars you used to authenticate this item, Mr. Spence. I want to see your Firpo signatures. Please discontinue boxing.

When I first saw this Firpo, I figured it had to be an April Fools joke, or a Halloween prank. But it has a valid JSA cert, which is equivalent to getting a passport and visa, ready to travel the world.

It's insulting to people who study boxing signatures and it would look the same to baseball collectors as calling the following Babe Ruth "authentic." When i see this Firpo, that's what I see, the boxing equivalent to this Ruth ball. Why do they bother with boxing?

I don't know. They don't seem to have the phone number of someone who can figure out this Luis Firpo, which ends up going to auction. And they aren't autographs on the fence in my opinion, not questionables that could go either way. They are obviously no good, but how can you get this through to Spence so he can understand the gravity and width, depth, and breadth of the situation?

Now if Morales name were in place of Spence, all the guys would pile on and say "yeah, get him!" (That's fine, I don't have a problem with that), but evidently JSA is above reproach. The third rail of autograph authentication? Why is it so sacrosanct to ignore the criticism and NOT hold these guys feet to the fire and demand explanations when they authenticate like this, and instead just make excuses for them? (My favorite is that "hey they just make a few mistakes like anybody else. They authenticate a lot of autographs. If you only knew how many autographs they cert.") Maybe they should do a little less then.

That's attitude seems fine if you don't collect boxing, but if they start doing this to YOUR favorite sport, then you might think different.

They don't even make excuses for themselves. They just say nothing and hope it goes away?

This is all my opinion, and if people want to use JSA, more power to you. I think people are scared to say anything about the top two authentication outfits because they think they need their certs to sell.

(I didn't make the ruth ball, it came off the internet, looks like the sig is computer generated.)

Travis Roste

Travis, as if your JSA example isn't bad enough, I just spotted this PSA slabbed HORRIBLE Nolan Ryan on eBay this morning. This is so far off, it's not even funny. Please note the inscription "5 K K's"??. This would insinuate that Ryan signed this 1979 Topps card after he struck out his 5000th batter in 1989. This signature does not look like a Ryan signature from any era, and especially one signed post 1989. Ryan would never have written the inscription that way; he would have used "5,000 K's". Give me a break! I saved the photo just to remind myself how far off authenticators can sometimes be.

Another example: JSA signed off on this clubhouse signed Ryan ball that is in a current auction.
Another mistake on a very common signature. BTW, this ball was actually signed by one of the Angels bat boys during the 1970's, which was a pretty common practice back then.

Both are examples of pretty bad detective work, IMHO.

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