Very, very, interesting...

[base_ball]

Originally Posted by Leon

After one of our discussions on the board, several years ago, I had someone call me and his introduction was literally "Hi Leon, I am a card doctor and I want to let you know more about the things your board members are saying."

Did this person tell you anything worth sharing with this board? Or with law enforcement?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by base_ball

Did this person tell you anything worth sharing with this board? Or with law enforcement?

I have shared everything I know with law enforcement. In different threads and posts I have also shared many details. I am not a card doctor so don't know it all. Most things are actually common sense and have been rehashed on the board over and over.

[Frozen in Time]

Let me start by saying that I don't really know anything about grading cards or determining whether or not a Ruth autograph is authentic. But, aside from the comparisons to known "real" autographs of Ruth, I would think that the surface properties of a vintage ball would change enough over a period of 70 or 80 years that a modern forgery might display some disparities in the interaction of the ink with the ball surface that could be examined and quantitated.

If this were true, some type of physical measurement (e.g., refractive index or absorption spectrum) would at least remove some of the subjectivity out of the process.

Does anyone know if this kind of approach has ever been used?

[David Atkatz]

As a physicist, Craig, I'm sure that 60+ years of ink-leather interaction must have some measurable effects. The key, of course, would be to measure them non-destructively.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

As a physicist, Craig, I'm sure that 60+ years of ink-leather interaction must have some measurable effects. The key, of course, would be to measure them non-destructively.

Along these lines, wouldn't fresh ink on 60 year old leather feather or spider-web to some degree?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Along these lines, wouldn't fresh ink on 60 year old leather feather or spider-web to some degree?

Obtaining old ink is easy.
I can remember being at the Atlantique City show some years ago.
Turned a corner and in a corner booth a dealer had a pyramid of old ink in those little bottles. A forgers wet dream come true.
I actually thought of "slipping" into the pyramid, and damaging all the bottles, but I knew it would mean trouble .

[TexasLeaguer]

There's an interesting documentary called "The Man Who Forged America" about a guy named Mark Hoffman who was a master forger. It's not about sports memorabilia at all, but it's worth watching because it shows a number of forgery techniques he used that are definitely relevant to a number of the things people here might collect. His story also has a crazy and unfortunate ending after he gets caught in his web of lies...

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=YORKKIAT
(hit play, close pop-up window, hit play again)

[RichardSimon]

His story is an eye opener.
He literally tried to rewrite Mormon history, then killed two people to try to cover up his crimes.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by TexasLeaguer

There's an interesting documentary called "The Man Who Forged America" about a guy named Mark Hoffman who was a master forger. It's not about sports memorabilia at all, but it's worth watching because it shows a number of forgery techniques he used that are definitely relevant to a number of the things people here might collect. His story also has a crazy and unfortunate ending after he gets caught in his web of lies...

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=YORKKIAT
(hit play, close pop-up window, hit play again)

TexasLeaguer,
Excellent Mark Hoffman documentary. Very interesting & thanks for posting! I like your avitar. Why your interest in Lon Warneke "The Arkansas Hummingbird"?

[David Atkatz]

"Old" ink is still "fresh" ink. It's liquid, and would feather when applied to a porous medium.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

"Old" ink is still "fresh" ink. It's liquid, and would feather when applied to a porous medium.

Yes, that's what I meant. It feathers when it hits old paper and sometimes wood... you'd think it would be true to a degree for leather as well.

[Bilko G]

Very, very interesting thread here guys and i am only on page 13 of the thread so i apologize if these questions/statements have been brought up already, but i wanted to get them down now, before i forgot or had other questions.

From the Hauls of shame article part 2...

The same ball that sold at the REA auction appears to have first surfaced publicly in a Sports Collectors Digest ad placed by Art Jaffe and Left Field Collectibles on April 21, 2000.

Is this is the same "Jaffe" or any relation to the Jaffe that was involved with the counterfeiting "Marino Family" and brought down in "Operation Bullpen"?

Also in part 2 of the article in the "Comments" section, there is a comment from a "Linda" who is implying that she is the granddaughter of Babe Ruth, which im sure Nash has confirmed, made a comment....

"During the Depression, his autograph kept food on the tables of his fans. He knew this and would generously sign boxes of balls for people."


What exactly does this mean?? To my understanding, it sounds like people were selling his autographed Baseballs to feed their families?? How do you guys imply this?? I know there was a debate (I believe it was in this thread, but it might have been a different one since ive been reading this forum for a few hours now tonight) about autographs having value or not in the 1940's? Well would this not PROVE that autographs had value back then??


Just read something else and edited it into this post...

Net54 poster says...

"Even in the early 80s you could buy a signed Ruth for a hundred bucks or less."

Is THIS true??? In the early 80's you could buy an autographed RUTH Baseball for $100 or less??? Wasn't the sports collectible industry really picking up steam in the early 80's?? I know collectible shows were popping up all over in the 80's and Ruth balls were less than $100 only 25-30 years ago??


Just a couple quick questions i had while reading

Thanks Guys!