Very, very, interesting...

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

As much as I love autograph collecting, it is riskier than most hobbies in that a forgery is worth zero.

But if you have an autograph forgery encased in a plastic tomb or with some chemical smeared on it, it is not worth zero.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

But if you have an autograph forgery encased in a plastic tomb or with some chemical smeared on it, it is not worth zero.

However, if you have a forgery encased in a plastic tomb, and the forgery is discovered, then it is back to being worth the plastic it is encased in. (I realize many, if not most, don't get corrected or found out about)

[travrosty]

i agree, a forgery in plastic is impossible to undo. its not worth zero , it has alphabet soup certification, and many people collect the certs, not the autographs.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

But if you have an autograph forgery encased in a plastic tomb or with some chemical smeared on it, it is not worth zero.

So cynical, Richard!

I see the point. However, the same could be said for non-TPA autographs that have been deemed forgeries. Nothing is stopping an unethical owner from passing it along to an unsuspecting buyer.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

So cynical, Richard!

I see the point. However, the same could be said for non-TPA autographs that have been deemed forgeries. Nothing is stopping an unethical owner from passing it along to an unsuspecting buyer.

True Zip, but if it is in a plastic tomb it most likely won't even get questioned by most.

[travrosty]

exactly right, if it is encased with a cert label, people wont question it, because it has been 'deemed authentic' by the worlds experts, and since they most likely arent a world expert, they wont question it.

if it is not encased, and it is a forgery that is loose, people might ask questions, have skepticism, which is good. If you encase it with a cert label, it better be good, you had better have done your homework, which they don't do in my opinion. several wife signed sonny listons in holders selling for 1000 dollars apiece. with no refund coming from the company that certed it. that's real money.

forgeries encased with a cert label are bought, sold, traded as authentic without question, except by a few people like me who question them but are labeled as troublemakers. That's why this whole system needs to be reformed.

[thebigtrain]

If it does turn out that the FBI forensics experts deem the pristine Ruths on Hauls of Shame as forgeries (which I firmly believe they all are), that will pretty much be the end of sports autograph collecting. PSA will be tarnished beyond repair, and the lawsuits will likely bankrupt them.

From a common sense perspective, it seems unlikely that such a large quantity of Ruths in that condition would have survived. Also, why did they all surface around the same time (late 90s/early 00s)?

Be pretty funny if PSA ends up out of business and Coach's Corner survives.

Seems the only way to be sure of your Ruth is to build a time machine, go back to pre-1948, and have him sign it in front of you. Short of that, there will always be questions, which kind of sucks all the fun out of it.

[David Atkatz]

The end of sports autograph collecting? Hardly.
How many of those Ruths would have sold for such extraordinarily high prices had they not been vetted by the TPAs? How many would have been rejected by buyers or even the auction houses had they not been given that TPA imprimatur?

If those balls are found to be fraudulent--and I, too, believe they will--it is the TPAs who (hopefully) will disappear. Sports autograph collecting (at least for those who educate themselves) will be better for it.

[E93]

I am not an autograph collector so I have no dog in this, but I missed the part where Nash presented any evidence. I am not doubting there are forgeries out there - just saying Nash does nothing here but try to set off alarms IMHO. I take everything that guy says with a grain of salt. Hasn't he been accused of some of the largest memorabilia fraud in the hobby? His Hall of Shame website seems like the pot calling the kettle black.
JimB
P.S. I have not read through this whole thread so excuse me if anyone has already said this.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by thebigtrain

If it does turn out that the FBI forensics experts deem the pristine Ruths on Hauls of Shame as forgeries (which I firmly believe they all are), that will pretty much be the end of sports autograph collecting.

With all due respect...

that made me laugh out loud.

It will be the end for people who collect pretty plastic cases, maybe.

Doug

[slidekellyslide]

I don't feel bad for anyone who drops 50-300 grand on a Babe Ruth "Blazer" just because some dude at ABC Authentication said it was good...same way I don't feel bad for the guy who wrecks his Ferrari while driving 50 miles over the speed limit..it's reckless. Without ROCK SOLID PROVENANCE why would you ever spend that kind of money of something that can, has and always will be faked?