Now I know where Coach's Corners crap goes

Forever Young · #1 01-07-2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

The postmark on this one looks real. It has all the right traits of a typical machine postmark. The points about the date and the "city' address that David made pretty much rule out the back message of course.

The only thing I find impressive about this one is the quality of the erasing job.

Steve B

So, what is the opinion of the board on these fake gpcs? Are they faking the postmarks or removing the original ink?

I love me some gpcs and now clearly need to know how to decipher good from bad if at all possible(outside of the signature). How can I determine if a postmark is good? HELP!

David Atkatz · #2 01-07-2012, 01:31 PM

The front of this PC is completely genuine.

RichardSimon · #3 01-07-2012, 01:53 PM

Where there is a will there is a way.
If there is a crooked way for forgers to sell autographs then somone will figure out a way to do it.
In this same vein, I saw a Babe Ruth Foundation check on ebay a couple of years ago. The check was blank and the check number was clearly visible. I immediately thought this could be trouble.
It did sell.
A month later the same check showed up again on ebay. Guess what? It was now filled in and signed with a skilled hand.
I did report it to one of my contacts in LE but one forged item unfortunately won't have much of an impact with LE.

RichardSimon · #4 01-07-2012, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever Young

So, what is the opinion of the board on these fake gpcs? Are they faking the postmarks or removing the original ink?

I would think that it is possible that "they" might be doing both though in this instance it appears that they removed the original writing.
The original forger in the hobby, Ron Dross (don't RIP Ron) had forged signatures on blank unpostmarked GPC's so they could be clearly spotted. But these guys are getting smarter.

thetruthisoutthere · #5 01-07-2012, 02:27 PM

Here it is.

AMA-2.jpg

AMA-3.jpg

AMA-4.jpg

Forever Young · #6 01-07-2012, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Here it is.

Attachment 53423

Attachment 53424

Attachment 53425

Thanks for putting this up here Truth!

David, How can you tell? Is there something you look at by the stamp in particular that is a dead give away or just years of handling?

Richard, unfortunately there are lots of wills…I trust very few people in this hobby. This is pretty damn good considering..; a couple more steps taken.
It is just too erratic to fool us.... BUT THEY WOULD HAVE FOOLED SOMEONE.

They combined the content of the two examples below....CROOKS!

The damndest thing is... these idiots would do better on ebay selling it with no cert. They went through all this trouble and will only get $120 for it rather than $113.

PS: They ALMOST nailed one letter in "K" ..well.... "KIND" of.

David Atkatz · #7 01-07-2012, 03:16 PM

I have seen the original note this PC was copied from. Other than the salutation, it's a word-for-word copy.

RichardSimon · #8 01-07-2012, 06:00 PM

The postcard sold for $475. If legit it certainly would bring a nice four figure sum.
My question is,,, who bought it and where will he try to sell it next?
It is like musical chairs with these items now, the last one left holding the item will be the loser.
I know that other hobbies have their horror stories too, but it seems to me that the sports memorabilia hobby is the worst of them all.
Why is that?

David Atkatz · #9 01-07-2012, 06:32 PM

Sports is hardly the worst.
Museums and collectors have purchased art forgeries for millions of dollars.

steve B · #10 01-07-2012, 07:13 PM

My theory -And I know I'll probably take some heat for it- Is that the traditions and culture of sports memorabilia collecting make the faking much easier.

In stamps there has been a lot of record keeping regarding the tiniest detail since sometime in the 1840's (1840 was the "first" postage stamp) Fakes made to fool collectors began to appear probably around the 1850's And there have been detailed descriptions of the assorted fakes and info about who made them for nearly as long.
And the fakers have often been bought out with their stock and equipment being retained by a national stamp collectors organization.

Coins have been faked for a very long time, but the enforcement has often come from governments.

In both hobbies the national collectors organizations have been pretty strong, and being kicked out for faking or shady dealings was usually a career ender for a dealer. Doing what's considered "right" was business as usual. (Very victorian era attitude, those outed as frauds were priahs and ruined men in the eyes of those in the hobby) The guy I hung out at took a return on a coin he'd sold something like 10 years before that turned out to be altered. The only question asked when the coin was shown to him was howmuch it had been bought for as he didn't recall. - NO certificate, no reciept, just a memory of having owned that coing and having sold it.

Not that there haven't been bad apples, ther have of course been plenty of them.

With Sports memorabilia there hasn't been the constant build up of detailed knowledge. In stamps I can look up if a stamp was typographed engraved or lithographed. I can't do that with most sports collectibles. Many collectors have an attitude of open rebellion against the very concept. Granted the people doing grading /authenticating are often just as blind as the collectors, but that's what most collectors want, someone else to have knowledge and make a clear determination of wether something is real.

Yes, there's a concern that the fakers will learn enough to make it hard to determine if something is fake, but the technical skills have literally been out there since the 1800's. Knowing what may have been done to something lets you know what to look for to be sure it hasn't been done.

In stamps, the certs will tell you what it IS if one is issued. If I send a stamp in as a US #500 and it's not they'll issue a cert stating that it's actually a different one. The ones where they declare "we decline to render an opinion" are the fun ones. That means the people who should be experts have looked at it and can't figure it out with confidence. That's either REALLY good or very bad. And it may take years of research to figure out which.

I can't think of many sports collectors who would accept that.
Amd maybe rightly so, so much of this stuff is really a gray area. The technical knowledge either isn't there or is too closely held.

Until things change so that a faker is essentially out of the business when found out and the average hobbyist wants knowledge instead of a "bargain" the fakers and frauds will have an easy time of it.

Steve B

Shoeless Moe · #11 01-09-2012, 12:24 PM

Sold in that Indiana auction for $350 over the weekend, that seller on Ebay sold it Sunday b4 having it in hand for $2500.

http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetai...70012#topoflot

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Christy-Math...item27c22af533

WOW!!!!!!!

rjackson44 · #12 01-11-2012, 07:30 AM

Wheres the fbi in all this omg.

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