Baseball Hall of Fame Vote

[sflayank]

i am amazed that no one on this board sees the obvious
last year he got 61%....I would like to know how its possible that so many people didnt think he was a hof'er last year and changed their mind this year
thats the problem with the system....either u belong in or you dont
putting someone in just because theres no one else is ridiculous

[YankeeCollector]

Originally Posted by sflayank

i am amazed that no one on this board sees the obvious
last year he got 61%....I would like to know how its possible that so many people didnt think he was a hof'er last year and changed their mind this year
thats the problem with the system....either u belong in or you dont
putting someone in just because theres no one else is ridiculous

+1

[T206BrownHindu]

How can Tim Raines not be in the Hall? The ones that should lose their voting privileges are the nine yahoos that filled out a blank ballot.

Mark

[daves_resale_shop]

Gavvy Cravath
Ed Reulbach
Mike Donlin

All of which are more deserving than the likes of mcgwire, bondsn sosa etc...

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by sflayank

i am amazed that no one on this board sees the obvious
last year he got 61%....I would like to know how its possible that so many people didnt think he was a hof'er last year and changed their mind this year
thats the problem with the system....either u belong in or you dont
putting someone in just because theres no one else is ridiculous

I think part of that may be because voter want to make sure at least one person get in per year. I honestly believe it's more than a secret ballot. There's much thought put into when a player gets in, rather than just whether he should get in.

Instead of thinking of it like Larkin got in this year because there was no one else worthy on the ballot. I'd like to think that he DIDN'T get in last year, because there was no one else on this years ballot..

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by sflayank

i am amazed that no one on this board sees the obvious
last year he got 61%....I would like to know how its possible that so many people didnt think he was a hof'er last year and changed their mind this year
thats the problem with the system....either u belong in or you dont
putting someone in just because theres no one else is ridiculous

There are a number of writers who believe that first ballot should be reserved for the very elite ballplayers, like Gwynn, and will not vote for a middle of the road HOFer on the 1st ballot but will do so the next time around.

FWIW, I think Larkin is a worthy HOFer given his position and era. Who was a better SS from 1990-1996? His career WAR is actually better than Gwynn, Snider, Murray, Santo, Carter, McCovey, Banks, Baker and quite a few other HOFers. He got an MVP, 3 Gold Gloves, had over 2300 hits and stole 379 bases. As a shortstop that is HOF worthy stuff. He wasn't expected to hit 50 HR and drive in 120 runs. That wasn't his job, which is why his WAR is better than so many big stats guys--they played at the slugger positions where massive production was expected.

[Chris-Counts]

"FWIW, I think Larkin is a worthy HOFer given his position and era. Who was a better SS from 1990-1996? His career WAR is actually better than Gwynn, Snider, Murray, Santo, Carter, McCovey, Banks, Baker and quite a few other HOFers. He got an MVP, 3 Gold Gloves, had over 2300 hits and stole 379 bases. As a shortstop that is HOF worthy stuff. He wasn't expected to hit 50 HR and drive in 120 runs. That wasn't his job, which is why his WAR is better than so many big stats guys--they played at the slugger positions where massive production was expected ..."

Adam, I nominate you as a Hall of Fame voter. You're better informed than most of them ...

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

There are a number of writers who believe that first ballot should be reserved for the very elite ballplayers, like Gwynn, and will not vote for a middle of the road HOFer on the 1st ballot but will do so the next time around.

FWIW, I think Larkin is a worthy HOFer given his position and era. Who was a better SS from 1990-1996? His career WAR is actually better than Gwynn, Snider, Murray, Santo, Carter, McCovey, Banks, Baker and quite a few other HOFers. He got an MVP, 3 Gold Gloves, had over 2300 hits and stole 379 bases. As a shortstop that is HOF worthy stuff. He wasn't expected to hit 50 HR and drive in 120 runs. That wasn't his job, which is why his WAR is better than so many big stats guys--they played at the slugger positions where massive production was expected.

Any thoughts on a SS with 2800+ hits, 401 SB's and 11 Gold Gloves?

[Big Six]

He'll get in...don't know when but he will. He was that good...Raines, too.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Big Six

He'll get in...don't know when but he will. He was that good...Raines, too.

Agree about Trammell and Raines. Now I'm not saying this guy belongs, but I'm still wondering how Lou Whitaker got written off so quickly?

[tbob]

The best pitcher of each decade since the beginning of baseball is in the Hall. Jack Morris was the best pitcher in the 80's. He should be in. He was the ace of 3 pitching staffs and lead each to a world championship. If he had "Red Sox" or "Yankees" on the front of his uniform, he would already be in.
There is absolutely no proof that Jeff Bagwell ever took PEDs or steroids. He should go in with Morris next year.

[Bigdaddy]

The question is not whether someone had a Hall of Fame worthy career before taking PEDs or after. If that's the case, then Pete should be in becasue he was only fingered for betting on baseball after his playing career was over - he's not being touted for his managerial career.

It's not when you did it, or for how long, or how many bets you made, it's the fact that you intentionally cheated the game and the basis for competition. If someone chose to do that, then they should not be in the Hall. The Hall will not be diminished because of shady characters being left out.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by tbob

There is absolutely no proof that Jeff Bagwell ever took PEDs or steroids. He should go in with Morris next year.

Sure, there's no proof. However, he did:

- gain like 40-50 lbs of muscle during his career
- went from a career high of 20 HRs in 1993 to 39 in 1994, while playing in only 2/3 of a season
- was teammates with Ken Caminiti, an admitted 'roid user
- was teammates with Steve Finley, a widely-suspected 'roid user
- was teammates with Luis Gonzalez, another widely-suspected 'roid user
- had multiple joint injuries while playing a position that requires basically no throwing

Obviously, I have no proof that Bagwell did steroids. To me, however, the idea that he DIDN'T is pretty much laughable.

Tabe

[sam majors]

I think Larkin was elected because they needed somebody to put in! A very good player but not Hall worthy in my opinion. The Pro football Hall Of Fame is even more watered down! They have to have at least four inducted but no more than seven each year. How foolish is that.

[David W]

Originally Posted by novakjr

Any thoughts on a SS with 2800+ hits, 401 SB's and 11 Gold Gloves?

Vizquel is Ozzie without the back flips....

Ozzie actually has a higher OBP than slugging %, that doesn't happen very often.

There a ton of 60's to 90's SS that are real similar in many ways.

Tony Fernandez, Aparicio, Ozzie, Concepcion, Bowa, Campaneris, Trammel, Burleson, and why some got in and others don't....... who knows.

Not to mention the whole Lou Whitaker thing.....