1927 Yankees team ball forgery

[perezfan]

David:

As the others stated, it is very commendable that you posted this. It was the difficult, but right thing to do, and many thanks (from all of us collectors) for taking the high road!

I am also hoping that this thread can address a little about the forgery itself...

Whle the sigs on the ball all appear very convincing, I am sure it must have been the unique style of this specific forger that gave it away. It's far easier to analyze "after the fact"... but in retrospect, it is interesting that the forger made two of the same basic mistakes that so many seem to...

1. The ink type, color, consistency and pressure doesn't vary at all from signature to signature. It is perfectly consistent throughout.

2. The signatures barely touch each other (if at all). Normally, there is some inevitable overlap, regardless of how much care is taken in signing.

This makes for a beautiful and aesthetically pleasing ball... but how many authentic team-signed balls really look this perfect? I know it's easier to look back and notice these things "after the fact", and that many/most of us would have been fooled by this one (including Spence). I just found it interesting that the even a forgery of this magnitude failed to "side-step" those tell-tale signs.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by perezfan

David:

As the others stated, it is very commendable that you posted this. It was the difficult, but right thing to do, and many thanks (from all of us collectors) for taking the high road!

I am also hoping that this thread can address a little about the forgery itself...

Whle the sigs on the ball all appear very convincing, I am sure it must have been the unique style of this specific forger that gave it away. It's far easier to analyze "after the fact"... but in retrospect, it is interesting that the forger made two of the same basic mistakes that so many seem to...

1. The ink type, color, consistency and pressure doesn't vary at all from signature to signature. It is perfectly consistent throughout.

2. The signatures barely touch each other (if at all). Normally, there is some inevitable overlap, regardless of how much care is taken in signing.

This makes for a beautiful and aesthetically pleasing ball... but how many authentic team-signed balls really look this perfect? I know it's easier to look back and notice these things "after the fact", and that many/most of us would have been fooled by this one (including Spence). I just found it interesting that the even a forgery of this magnitude failed to "side-step" those tell-tale signs.

The young-skilled forger (who still may be around) who did that ball was also skilled at producing vintage New York Giants team-signed baseballs. Back in the day, he fooled many people.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

The young-skilled forger (who still may be around) who did that ball was also skilled at producing vintage New York Giants team-signed baseballs. Back in the day, he fooled many people.

He also fooled Charlie Sheen in a classic con of forged baseballs.
SS balls of Black Sox were inscribed To Charlie and were allegedly given to Charlie Riegler who was one of the umps during the 1919 Series.
From what I was told, Sheen gobbled them up.
Though he was conned I thought he was pretty good in Eight Men Out .
This story is only hearsay but I believe it is true.
And I did see a 1920's NY Giants "team signed" ball at a show, offered to me by the partner of the forger.

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

And I did see a 1920's NY Giants "team signed" ball at a show, offered to me by the partner of the forger.

Is his partner still active in the hobby?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Also, the young-skilled forger primarily forged vintage baseballs.

[David Atkatz]

Richard just said above that he forged single-signed balls, as well.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Richard just said above that he forged single-signed balls, as well.

I corrected my typo, David. Thank you.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by mschwade

Is his partner still active in the hobby?

yes he is.

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

yes he is.

That's very disturbing news. Is this a well known dealer?

[RichardSimon]

I would not call him well known but he is known to some.

[David Atkatz]

The forger did, however, replicate aspects of early team balls that many do not notice. On many such balls, the players did not sign over the manufacturer's stamps; that was done here. Also, note the panel with the league president's signature stamp. The player signatures align with the stamp, rather than the usual "ladder" alignment, with the signatures forming the rungs of a ladder, and the seams being the sides. This, too, was often done on early team balls.

The forger wasn't "greedy." (Ironic way of phrasing it.) Had he chosen to sign over the stampings, there would have been plenty of room to include more signatures--a Giard, for example--and thus increase the ball's value.