POLL: Who is responsible to reimburse collectors for bad autographs

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by Caseyatbat

Yes they make mistakes, but they are only human and in my experiences are right on the money 99% of the time.

Casey, the quote above, i noticed you have mentioned it on 3 different occasions in this thread, so it must be something that you truly stand behind. So i was just curious, how you know "in your experiences" they are roght on the money 99% of the time? There is no way you can say this, unless of course everything you are submitting is all in-person, signed right in front of your very eyes.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Bilko G

Casey, the quote above, i noticed you have mentioned it on 3 different occasions in this thread, so it must be something that you truly stand behind. So i was just curious, how you know "in your experiences" they are roght on the money 99% of the time? There is no way you can say this, unless of course everything you are submitting is all in-person, signed right in front of your very eyes.

Casey - this thread is turning into just what I hoped it would. A good healthy debate.
However, I have to agree with Bilko questioning the 99% number. If pressed I would think that even the alphabet soup guys would not condede that they are that good. Obviously, they have never come on 54 to explain what they have done, so we will probably never know what they would claim for themselves.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Bilko G

Casey, the quote above, i noticed you have mentioned it on 3 different occasions in this thread, so it must be something that you truly stand behind. So i was just curious, how you know "in your experiences" they are roght on the money 99% of the time? There is no way you can say this, unless of course everything you are submitting is all in-person, signed right in front of your very eyes.

But this, in turn, brings up the question of how many authenticated autos have been proven, after the fact, to be inauthentic? I mean iron clad proof, not just another opinion? It happens, but is very rare. Much less than 99 percent of the top authenticators' examples.

Every company should invalidate it's authenticity marker and refund the price of authentication if something can be proven bunk. But if it sold for 20k, how can the company be on the line for that? As someone mentioned at the onset of this thread, these are not insurers we are discussing.

[mschwade]

Here's, I think, a legitimate question... How many times do you think a TPA wavers on whether an autograph is real or not and gives an authentic opinion based on the reputation of the submitter or the dealer that the submitter purchased from?

I would like to see a TPA held somewhat responsible for giving an authentic opinion so they're less likely to deem something that they are up in the air on authentic based on anything other than the autograph itself.

If they're held somewhat responsible, they'll be forced to be even more thorough in their process, as well. That should make for a more comfortable market for buyers.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by mschwade

Here's, I think, a legitimate question... How many times do you think a TPA wavers on whether an autograph is real or not and gives an authentic opinion based on the reputation of the submitter or the dealer that the submitter purchased from?

I would like to see a TPA held somewhat responsible for giving an authentic opinion so they're less likely to deem something that they are up in the air on authentic based on anything other than the autograph itself.

If they're held somewhat responsible, they'll be forced to be even more thorough in their process, as well. That should make for a more comfortable market for buyers.

Do the TPA's actually know where an autograph came from when it is submitted?
My authentication business is small and I never want to know where an autograph came from when it is submitted to me for authentication. My main business is still buying and selling.
Though I want to repeat a statement from another post I made. I was asked, in another thread, if pressure was ever applied to me by an auction house. Yes pressure was put on myself and the crew I worked with by American Memorabilia.
That was one of the reasons we stopped working for them.
Is pressure applied by other auction houses, or dealers, to authenticators? I don't know the answer to that question except for my own experience. I did work for other smaller auction houses and pressure was never applied.
In light of recent stories on the net, I could start another poll and ask "do you think auction houses put pressure on authenticators to ok high ticket items?"

[Caseyatbat]

Bilko, Of course when I say that, it is my opinion. And I mentioned 99%, Which may not reflect the exact percentage, but I thought it would be good number to reflect my opinion that they are correct in their findings just about every time. Obviously there are always exceptions.

You asked "how did I come to this conclusion?" I have come to this conclusion after submitting many many items to them, and then also researching tens of thousands of previously authenticated and sold items over the past 10 years. And comparing my own conclusions to theirs. It is my job to do so.

I believe their is a common misconception about TPA's. I think the 2 major TPA's will fail any item they are not extremely confident in. I believe they would rather fail the item, than risk putting their name on it and have it draw negative attention later. So consequently, they are failing items that may very well be authentic. They just were not comfortable enough to put their name on it. And I believe they are correct in doing so when that happens, if they passed the questionable item it usually results in people going online and making a huge stink about it. So I think for the most part, people are upset about them not passing items, rather than actually passing items. This does not include "Auction letters", I agree with Richard and think are a huge gimmick. Many auction houses list their items with "Auction Letters" before they are even looked at and then later remove the item because it finally got looked at and was no good.