In light of recent revelations are you more or less confident in TPA?

[vintagechris]

I voted for about the same. As someone who has bought several autographed card lots from auction houses, It appears to me that the TPA's have gotten very lazy or worse.

I have seen some things pass that there could have been no way that actually looked at the items.

I would be interested in knowing the actual process of what happens when these authenticators look at these things for auction houses.

I know we have a member who works for an auction house, maybe he will chime in.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by vintagechris

I would be interested in knowing the actual process of what happens when these authenticators look at these things for auction houses.

I am just going to repeat what I have said earlier. Having authenticated for several auction houses (not the big name ones) American Memorabilia did place pressure on our team of three authenticators to pass items. This led to constant shouting matches and eventually to the team leaving Am. Mem.
I am not casting aspersions on other auction houses because I honestly do not know if what I described ever took place at any other auction house. I also authenticated for Phillips Gallery, Guernseys and Clean Sweep. None of those auction houses ever put any pressure on me to authenticate any items.

[barrysloate]

Richard- the most troubling point you brought up is the fact that one of the auction houses you worked for put pressure on you to pass questionable autographs. Since TPA don't have to stand behind their decisions, as they are merely offering opinions, couldn't these companies be bought off by aggressive dealers and auction houses? Couldn't they accept under-the-table money in return for passing bad autographs, since they can't be sued and can't be held responsible? Is it reasonable to think this already goes on?

[vintagechris]

Richard, I wonder if some of these authenticators today just pass stuff, not because of pressure from the auction houses, but because the authenticators know these auction houses bring them a lot of business and if they don't pass a large % or certain %, said auction house may decide to use someone else.

Just to be clear, I am not saying you did anything like that, but with some of the stuff I have seen with my own eyes, I wonder about some of the alphabet boys and wonder if this is going on.

[drc]

My opinion they offer valuable and learned independent opinions, but they should be used as a second opinion not the only opinion.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by drc

My opinion they offer valuable and learned independent opinions, but they should be used as a second opinion not the only opinion.

i'm new to this side of the hobby, so after the past couple months i voted less confident. i also agree with david's statement above.

as for TPG on the card side i would say i have more confidence in me doing a better job than PSA/SGC on the stuff i collect...and hopefully this will carry over to autographs and i could rely less and less on TPA.

[mschwade]

I voted "the same." I generally have a better feeling about an autograph if PSA or JSA have given an authentic opinion. It doesn't mean I don't seek other opinions or form my own opinions.

For example, last year one of my top goals was to own a Pat Collins (1927 Yankees) autograph. Some of you may recall, I had a very difficult time finding one or ended up as the underbidder at closing time of various auctions. It took me about six months to get one and when I finally did, I had seen so many Collins and studied different examples that in myself, I felt 100% confident I was getting a genuine Pat Collins signature.

Today, I am extremely happy with the one I added and feel like I could tell you if a Collins is real or not if you gave me one to look at.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by vintagechris

Richard, I wonder if some of these authenticators today just pass stuff, not because of pressure from the auction houses, but because the authenticators know these auction houses bring them a lot of business and if they don't pass a large % or certain %, said auction house may decide to use someone else.

Just to be clear, I am not saying you did anything like that, but with some of the stuff I have seen with my own eyes, I wonder about some of the alphabet boys and wonder if this is going on.

A perfectly good question to ask. Unfortunately all I can say is we don't know the answer to that question.

[Bilko G]

In light of what we have seen in the last several months, how can anyone be voting that they are more confident in TPA's abilities?

[drc]

Not autographs, but I've been asked to examine items for two of the big auction houses where I said the items were fake. In one case, the auction house simply returned the items to the consignor and didn't include them in the auction. In the other, the items were included in the auction but clearly detailed them as not being vintage or originals.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Richard- the most troubling point you brought up is the fact that one of the auction houses you worked for put pressure on you to pass questionable autographs. Since TPA don't have to stand behind their decisions, as they are merely offering opinions, couldn't these companies be bought off by aggressive dealers and auction houses? Couldn't they accept under-the-table money in return for passing bad autographs, since they can't be sued and can't be held responsible? Is it reasonable to think this already goes on?

Such an attempt was never made to me.
The pressure was rarely put on us to authenticate an autograph that we outright said was bad. However, when we were taking our time examining something that was not immediately apparent, the pressure was put on us. "Oh, this piece came from a good consignor" "oh, this piece came from the Minnesota clubhouse guy", etc.