Where have all the T206 uncut sheets gone.... ?

tedzan · #1 01-19-2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

�If Wagner & Plank were in the 150 first printing pass as you you claim then the smoking gun would be out of the 40-100+ Wagners everybody talks about why only two hand cut Piedmont Wagners? Same for Plank also. Where�s the smoking gun where�s the non-hand cut Piedmont 150�s of Wagner & Plank? It�s the ATC�s mega flagship brand as you point out, Plank and Wagner are big time players how did they not get printed with Piedmont beyond our few hand cut examples?�

John

TELL US ALL......how do you know how many PIEDMONT versions of these two subjects were actually printed....NOT SHIPPED....just PRINTED ? ?

The truth is NO ONE KNOWS !

In the Spring of 1909, American Lithographic (ALC) started cranking out several press runs of PIEDMONT cards of Wagner & Plank and the ten 150-Only cards shown here.
When both these guys informed ATC that they did want to be associated with Tobacco cards, ATC immediately relayed this information to ALC. ALC clipped off Wagner &
Plank from their sheets of PIEDMONT's.

Batches of the ten 150-Only cards were shipped to PIEDMONT Factory #25 (VA) and were inserted in cigarette packs that were marketed in areas South of New York
and New England.

That includes Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, so you do not have to be a Rocket Scientist to understand why ALC was not going to ship PIEDMONT Wagner & Plank cards to
the Richmond Factory.

Now, the question is.....why were SWEET CAPORAL 150 Factory #25 Wagner & Plank cards shipped to Richmond to possibly be marketed in the Pennsylvania area ?

My guess on that is a few sneaked out of ALC. A meaningful test of this would be a survey of how many Wagner & Plank cards are SWEET CAPORAL 150 Factory #25 vs
SWEET CAPORAL 150 Factory #30 ?

TED Z

Abravefan11 · #2 01-19-2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

In the Spring of 1909, American Lithographic (ALC) started cranking out several press runs of PIEDMONT cards of Wagner & Plank and the ten 150-Only cards shown here. When both these guys informed ATC that they did want to be associated with Tobacco cards, ATC immediately relayed this information to ALC. ALC clipped off Wagner & Plank from their sheets of PIEDMONT's.

Batches of the ten 150-Only cards were shipped to PIEDMONT Factory #25 (VA) and were inserted in cigarette packs that were marketed in areas South of New York and New England.

That includes Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, so you do not have to be a Rocket Scientist to understand why ALC was not going to ship PIEDMONT Wagner & Plank cards to the Richmond Factory.

Now, the question is.....why were SWEET CAPORAL 150 Factory #25 Wagner & Plank cards shipped to Richmond to possibly be marketed in the Pennsylvania area ?

My guess on that is a few sneaked out of ALC. A meaningful test of this would be a survey of how many Wagner & Plank cards are SWEET CAPORAL 150 Factory #25 vs SWEET CAPORAL 150 Factory #30 ?

TED Z

Ted - With all due respect, none of that is true.

Runscott · #3 01-19-2012, 12:19 PM

John - thanks for responding to my post. I think it's good to get some others involved, as right now it's just more of the old alignment of you and Tim vs Ted. We aren't getting anywhere with that.

wonkaticket · #4 01-19-2012, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

John - thanks for responding to my post. I think it's good to get some others involved, as right now it's just more of the old alignment of you and Tim vs Ted. We aren't getting anywhere with that.

Scott it's just not that simple....

Scott it isn't a me vs. Ted thing it's a me vs. tale tales presented as fact on a public forum thing. You start weaving tale tales, making up cards that don�t exist. Telling folks you own things you don�t. Start messing with lists that folks as a collective community have worked on for years all the while claiming them as your own. Post pure fantasy topics as fact. All while having an attitude about it then when your called to task for your own actions cry victim and I�ll question your thoughts and comments as well.

Cheers,

John

Runscott · #5 01-19-2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Scott it's just not that simple....

Scott it isn't a me vs. Ted thing it's a me vs. tale tales presented as fact on a public forum thing. You start weaving tale tales, making up cards that don�t exist. Telling folks you own things you don�t. Start messing with lists that folks as a collective community have worked on for years all the while claiming them as your own. Post pure fantasy topics as fact. All while having an attitude about it then when your called to task for your own actions cry victim and I�ll question your thoughts and comments as well.

Cheers,

John

Thanks, John. I understand. I will attempt to gather the unbiased parts of each theory, write something up, send it for review to those whose input I've filched, and go from there.

Also, Thank Tim and Ted for the detail you've both sent me.

wonkaticket · #6 01-19-2012, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

[B]The truth is NO ONE KNOWS !
In the Spring of 1909, American Lithographic (ALC) started cranking out several press runs of PIEDMONT cards of Wagner & Plank and the ten 150-Only cards shown here.When both these guys informed ATC that they did want to be associated with Tobacco cards, ATC immediately relayed this information to ALC. ALC clipped off Wagner &
Plank from their sheets of PIEDMONT's.TED Z

Ted you�re fantasy�s are just too much for me I presented some good questions/evidence here has Tim. All you have are misc dates you pulled out your thoughts that Plank was giving the ATC cease & desist letters and your pulled from thin air these are the first 12 players ever printed and you have the nerve to say I don�t know or have evidence.

Read your above statement Ted. In 1909 the ATC started cranking out several press runs of Wagner & Plank really? And you know this how? Plank said he didn�t want his image with tobacco and notified the ATC. Again you know this how? The ATC immediately clipped off Wagner & Plank from Piedmont. Once again you know this how?

YOU don�t know this either. The above is pure speculation or fantasy until you have hard evidence.

Yeah Plank was so against his image that the ATC �immediately� pulled his Piedmont card from the original 12 and a few Sweet Cap 150�s slipped out. The ATC seemed to be so worried about the so called litigation from Plank that you theorize about so much that ATC let some 350�s of Plank slip out months to almost a year later as well.

I don�t know for fact how many Piedmont Wagners or Planks were printed never claimed too. Or if they were ever printed in fact I say I doubt they were ever printed for production. Hence my disagreement with you and your thoughts. Ted YOU also have no idea if they ever even made it to production for distribution with the Piedmont brand but it doesn�t stop you from typing it as fact.

Seeing as we only have 2 Wagners and 3 Planks known to date with Piedmont 150 backs all which are hand cut or missing color or something. Seems like a very logical thought they never did make it into distribution as factory finished cards. We draw the same conclusion on Brown Old Mill and there are more examples of Brown Old Mill than Piedmont 150�s of Plank and Wagner�so why do we toss that logic here because you say so?

Ted have at it for the rest of the thread. I�m finished trying to share information with you or even question your ideas. It�s so painfully clear all you want is pats on the back and to be told how smart you are. There is no real quest for you to figure out this set. Your main goal is to convince everyone that you�re right and that all things T206 in regards of knowledge have some ties to you in some shape or form.

Ted if anyone needs evidence at this point it�s you for the record. I�m not the one with a laundry list of fantasy theories. I�m not the person with a history of tall tales and faked scans of cards that don�t exist. I�m not the one with stories of cards I don�t own. I�m not the one who when challenged to produce cards of question has excuses of �opps just sold him� or ends up posting fake scans. You are a real enigma Ted I have never met someone so hell bent on being taken as a serious scholar who limelight�s with fish stories and tall tales. You really make me laugh sometimes even if some of the stuff isn�t so funny.

John

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