Should the TPA's place a sticker on an authenticated item?

[travrosty]

If they advertise that as "in the presence" and the man did not actually see the athlete sign the piece, I think that is deplorable.

The Sal Bando incident proved pieces that were described as being signed at the show could easily be switched and get a cert for them by 'trusting' the individual.

In the presence, means right there watching, not 'in the general area'. The sign says to provide the receipt, that's not really in the presence, is it?

What's the difference between providing the receipt there at the show, or asking someone to walk across the street to the hotel and provide the receipt in order to get the item stickered?

How close you are to the athlete means nothing if you aren't watching him sign the piece in question and advertising it as "in the presence".

Now we know how this program works. Nothing is as it seems to be with these companies.

Clarification is below

[travrosty]

From the PSA website

"When you see the PSA/DNA Guaranteed Authentic certificate, it means that a PSA representative has witnessed the item being signed."


It looks like this is a lie, asking for the receipt isn't the same as witnessing the items being signed, is it? If the PSA representative witnessed the item being signed, you wouldnt even need the receipt, you could just move 3 feet over and get it stickered for 8 bucks.

When is the shell game going to stop? Witnessing means that the guy watching it being signed is the guy putting the sticker on. When collectors see one definition of 'in the presence on a website, and experience another in person, they don't know which shell the ball in under anymore. doesn't mean the company is trying to pull one over on someone, but they allow for shenanigans to occur like we have seen in the past. Seeing the item being signed, then immediately stickering it allows for none of that.

[Fuddjcal]

I always thought that this was about the stupidest concept anyway. The only signing I went to in recent memory was when I saw the late Willie Davis at a signing near where I was working about 5 years ago. I stopped in bought a ball, an autograph ticket and stood in a 1 person line to have him sign it.

Then, some numb-skull kid with PSA sitting next to him asks me if I'd like an authentication with that? ($7.00 at the time) I asked "what the hell I needed that for when I just saw the man sign the thing right in front of my face."

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

from the psa website

"when you see the psa/dna guaranteed authentic certificate, it means that a psa representative has witnessed the item being signed."


it looks like this is a lie, asking for the receipt isn't the same as witnessing the items being signed, is it? If the psa representative witnessed the item being signed, you wouldnt even need the receipt, you could just move 3 feet over and get it stickered for 8 bucks.

When is the shell game going to stop?

++++1111
sham, con, fake, false advertising and that's just their good side
And they are putting a f------ d--- sticker on the item in the picture,, where does it end?

[travrosty]

It never ends.

to clarify, they might have another representative on the other end witnessing the signatures, but to have only the receipt as proof that you had something signed, might as well not even have the other guy watch the signing, as the visual chain of custody has been broken, and the item or receipt could have been switched, or tampered with in the meantime.

Even if they initialed a receipt or whatever, it may be a fact that a rep witnessed AN item, and the guy stickering stickered AN item, but for PSA to say that the stickered items mean that THE item has been witnessed is not right, because for witnessing to occur, the guy putting on the sticker has to be the guy who saw the signing.

Anything else, no matter what safeguards they put in place, is whatever they want to call it but it is not witnessing.

Think of a notary public stamping something, saying they saw a guy signing, when all they did is look at a receipt that says ANOTHER guy saw him sign something, and taking the receipt at the same face value as actually WITNESSING the guy signing. Not the same, so it should not be advertised as witnessing.

[HRBAKER]

It doesn't end until people quit lining up and paying the freight.
Where's the incentive to do any different?