This looks interesting indeed

danmckee · #1 02-17-2012, 01:36 PM

Barry, you are unforgettable!

barrysloate · #2 02-17-2012, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danmckee

Barry, you are unforgettable!

hugginsandscott · #3 02-17-2012, 02:04 PM

Board Members:

First, this is certainly not an easy situation to deal with and I do want to apologize to anyone who is upset. I have worked for Bill Huggins (originally with House of Cards) starting in 1985. We began Huggins and Scott Auctions in 2003 and I am part-owner and Vice President of the Company. The one thing I can tell you about Bill and this company, is that we pride ourselves on honesty, integrity and upholding the highest standards for this hobby that we all love. When an item�s authenticity is questioned, we pull them from the auction if we can�t confirm they are legitimate. When someone has a problem with a lot, we do everything we can to make it right for the customer including offering returns and refunds, which is unusual for auction houses, since rule #1 is �Everything is sold as is.�

I can tell you that House of Cards is an entirely separate entity from Huggins and Scott Auctions. They have no advantage over any other bidder in our auctions, other than they are physically closer to the lots and can view them � but so can anyone else who wants to view every lot in the auction. They also do not pay shipping charges � but neither does anyone else who wants to come to our offices and pick up their winnings. In fact, the original poster in this thread has come to the offices to preview lots and comes to the office to pick up his winnings � the exact same advantages as House of Cards has.

hugginsandscott · #4 02-17-2012, 02:04 PM

The way our auction system is developed is that NO ONE can see who is bidding on which lot, nor can they see how much they are bidding. Only those who place the bids know what and how much they are bidding. From a �code� standpoint, items that are active in the auction have a �0� code. As soon as the lot ends, it is converted to a �1�, which opens the bid history for us to see, however the lot is CLOSED at that point and nothing else can be done by anyone (in house or out) to modify it.

The fact that our honesty and integrity has been questioned (and in some cases, not questioned, but deemed �guilty of fraud�) is troubling, to say the least. I can assure each and every one of you, that no illegal activity has taken place in any of our auctions, nor will it ever take place. Bill Huggins, our President, has told me that if ANYONE would like to discuss this personally with him, he would be more than happy to do so, in a phone conversation during business hours. He is currently at the show in Somerset, NJ, but will return to the office on Monday and if you would like to ask him anything about this situation, or our company, he would be happy to have a conversation with you. He can be reached toll free at 1-866-462-2273. If you would like to have the conversation with me, I would also be more than happy to discuss this with anyone. You can contact the office and they will get the message to me and I will contact you back.

Thanks for reading.

Josh Wulkan
Vice President
Huggins and Scott Auctions

Exhibitman · #5 02-17-2012, 03:05 PM

Hidden reserves are used for an entirely legitimate purpose in some auctions that is unrelated to shilling. If a consignor wants to get a certain dollar for an item that the auctioneer does not think it will fetch sometimes the item will be offered with a hidden reserve to test the market to show the consignor what the item is worth. Some consignors will then authorize the auctioneer to offer the high bidder the chance to purchase the item at the max bid even though it did not reach the reserve.

Bugsy · #6 02-17-2012, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugginsandscott

NO ONE can see who is bidding on which lot, nor can they see how much they are bidding.

Josh, it doesn't matter whether or not you or Bill know the amount of the max bids, it is still shill bidding. Bill's participation in the bidding not only inflates the final sale prices, but also increases the house's take on the buyer's premiums. Every time Bill bumps a lot, it increases how much Huggins and Scott pocket on the buyers premiums. That is exactly the point.

Bugsy · #7 02-17-2012, 04:00 PM

Also, consider this. I am selling a card for my father on eBay. I list it for a starting bid of $0.99 and plan to let it run a full 7 days. Now let's say it has a book value of $1,000. I have no idea what other bidders have entered, but I would consider it a bargain at $800, so I enter my own bid. If I win, I can try selling it at some point down the road. Can anyone else see the conflict on interest?

At least if I were shilling this acution, it would be eBay (a third party) enjoying the increase off of the final value fees...they wouldn't be going into my own pocket.

slidekellyslide · #8 02-17-2012, 05:16 PM

Who is the owner of Huggins and Scott auctions? Who is the owner of House Of Cards? If the answer is the same person then it is shill bidding.

egbeachley · #9 02-17-2012, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugsy

Josh, it doesn't matter whether or not you or Bill know the amount of the max bids, it is still shill bidding. Bill's participation in the bidding not only inflates the final sale prices, but also increases the house's take on the buyer's premiums. Every time Bill bumps a lot, it increases how much Huggins and Scott pocket on the buyers premiums. That is exactly the point.

You keep making the assumption that the bids raise the price and they don't win. If they win the lot they essentially lose the house take and need to pay the consignor out of their own cash.

Eric

mordecaibrown · #10 02-17-2012, 11:58 PM

Im confused by why some people think this is an alright practice. Ill try to lay out an example to illustrate how Huggins and Scott can only win by bidding on items in their own auction.

For example, if Huggins and Scott is auctioning off an item that they determine has a "market value" of $500 from previous sales; however, the item is only currently being bid at $200.

The buyer is about to purchase the item for $200 + $39 (buyers premium - 19.5%) = $239. Huggins and Scott are going to make $39.

Huggins and Scott decide that this is below retail and decide to put a bid in for $300 (even though they do not know max bid). Here are the two scenarios that occur:

1) Huggins and Scott win auction and have bought an item at a good price (relative to determined retail) and can sell it through House of Cards for a profit. And they bought it for $300 because they are not paying buyers premium.

2) Other buyers max bid is greater than $300 and the new high bid in the auction becomes $330. Now the buyer is buying the item for $330 + $64.35 (buyers premium) = $394.35. By making a "feeler" bid Huggins and Scott just made themselves $25!

Huggins and Scott can ONLY benefit by placing bids on items in their own auction!

And they can continue to do this. They could then toss out a bid of $400 and increase their profits if the other buyer has put in a higher maximum bid.

I do not know if they are alone in this practice or if other auction companies also do this, but I do not see how it is anything other than a conflict of interest by the auction house.

Andy Ken-nedy

painthistorian · #11 02-18-2012, 12:06 AM

Hi Lee- I do agree Baggers and Goodwin are excellent auction houses. I do find that even though there were issues in the past from the archives as you mentioned with Clean Sweep, I believe that Steve does not have anyone bidding on his or any consigned lots from his retail company, he runs an ethical auction. He may have made mistakes but it was not the same as having his retail company bidding on their own auction material. As much as I really like & enjoy H&S and their auctions, I am surprised & concerned on what was stated in this thread.

I do respect your opinion and I do transact with almost every auction house, each has its + and -, REA is still the best overall since I know he does not own any of the material he auctions.

Bugsy · #12 02-18-2012, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egbeachley

You keep making the assumption that the bids raise the price and they don't win. If they win the lot they essentially lose the house take and need to pay the consignor out of their own cash.

I am making the assumption that he has been outbid on several items over the course of this activity. That is shilling. Doing it even once, is wrong.

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