Video Spectral Comparator

RichardSimon · #1 02-20-2012, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B

Meaning it can probably tell old ink from new ink. They're not specific in the stuff I read as to how detailed it can be, but it can do that.

So properly used it can likely tell if say a Ruth ball was signed with 30's ink or 2000's ink. If you had a good library of ink formulations and the machine generates enough detail you could probably tell the brand. (And maybe more)

Steve B

I don't think the machine can do that.
If it could the forgery problem in the hobby would be cut in half in a month.
There are a couple of labs in the country that can date ink. However, that requires removal of a tiny portion of ink from the questioned item and costs thousands of dollars.

steve B · #2 02-20-2012, 09:11 AM

Portable spectrographs are out there that give a good read on the chemical makeup of whatever they're used on. Some are optimized for a particular job, llike analysing steel or testing for lead.

The new version of the machine made by Projectina has some capability to determine ink.
" New: EasyScan mode for automated investigation and
differentiation of printing inks with various illumination and filter
combinations."

Probably not as detailed as needed. And the full brochure shows an optional spectrometer
"Optional Accessories
Colour Spectroscopy Module SP-2000
Miniature fibre optics spectrometer SP-2000 with USB
connection, fibre diameter 100 microns, resolution 6.4 nm,
grating bandwidth 360-1100 nm, barrier filter can be used to
measure luminescence spectra"

That's about where it's getting unclear as to exactly what it can do. Certainly limited spectroscopy. Full brochure can be found with a link lower right on this page.http://www.forensictechnology.com/nirvis/
The brochure shows a lot more of the capabilities, although mostly geared towards stuff like passports and money.

I was looking at some of the machines and there was one that was portable and did detailed spectroscopy including sepearating the report on the target from the report on the substrate. Which is important for the circuit board guys. It could also measure the thickness of a surface coating.

At that point it's just the hard science of matching the makeup of one ink to a database or to known qualities that weren't used before a certain date.

The show that was on briefly with Leigh and Leslie Keno (the twins from antiques roadshow) Showed them using a portable unit to tell if the bronze in a bowl was ancient or modern.

So the technology is out there.
I'm not sure there's a good publicly available library of ink compositions. I'm pretty sure there are a few being maintained.

It's amazing how the tech has changed. When I was in tech school a spectrograph or chromatograph needed a sample, and was incredibly expensive, probably somewhere over $500,000. Now they're probably under 50,000 and do far more without destroying a sample. I'd get prices, but all the sites I've found require contacting the sales dept and I can't bring myself to bother them out of curiosity. I wouldn't mind having one, but can't afford it. And if I could I'd buy a 3-D printer first.

Steve B

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