This looks interesting indeed

[edhans]

Kudos for doing the right thing, Bill.

[ScottFandango]

thanks

[ullmandds]

Wow...what a forgiving lot?!?!

Not even an apology? We're listening to what our customers want...meaning for HOC/HS not to shill their own auctions and basically rob their customers of their hard earned cash?

And from this moment on...we're not going to steal your $$$ anymore?!?!

And many of you are ok with this...end of story? WOW!

[ullmandds]

I must admit this silence is deafening to me.

[rainier2004]

Peter, I know from your posts you are a much more educated and overall experienced collector than myself. But for me, I am tired of not being listened to with legitimate concerns such as the one with h/s auctions. Bill changed his policies and apologized...my inexperience leaves me somewhat historically uneducated, but at this point I was happy Bill changed. If the cards I want are at a good price, I have no reservations on bidding.

Steven Suckow

[Kenny Cole]

Legitimate point, but, as you know, stuff triumphs over everything else. EOS.

[Runscott]

Steven, I will defend the way Chris handles his customers at Heritage - I can guarantee you that he goes overboard trying to resolve issues, and I didn't see anything in your posts here or your PM's with me that indicated otherwise. If I had known that he was going to get attacked repeatedly after trying to resolve your situation, I would never have suggested you contact him. You apparently did so with your line drawn in the sand, and any response by him that fell short of what you demanded was going to result in your taking the issue to this board, and then apparently never letting go of it. I don't think that's fair.

I'm sure I'll regret not avoiding this train-wreck.

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Peter, I know from your posts you are a much more educated and overall experienced collector than myself. But for me, I am tired of not being listened to with legitimate concerns such as the one with h/s auctions. Bill changed his policies and apologized...my inexperience leaves me somewhat historically uneducated, but at this point I was happy Bill changed. If the cards I want are at a good price, I have no reservations on bidding.

Steven Suckow

Does anyone wonder whether the change would have been made had this thread not been started ?

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by T206DK

Does anyone wonder whether the change would have been made had this thread not been started ?

Of course everyone knows that this "issue" wouldn't have changed b/c in their eyes, they were doing nothing wrong. Things like this or just things in general don't get changed without people pointing out the possible wrongdoing effect it will have on their business and/or the community.

How does anything with possible unethical implications get changed? Through the masses voting it to change or peer pressure or mind changing in general. I'm just glad that the President of H&S was listening and made the proper adjustments...I give him full credit for that.

For the record, I do believe it is wrong to bid on their auctions like they were doing, but I can honestly see both sides of the spectrum.

Mik/e C.a.vv.e.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by T206DK

Does anyone wonder whether the change would have been made had this thread not been started ?

I guess my whole point is/was I was glad he was listening and made the change...probably wouldnt have made the change otherwise. As far as HOC goes, I have never won a lot there, and still do not agree with those practices and will not bid.

Kudos to Dan for the thread in the first place and initiating change. Lots of things bother me in this world...I dont know Mr Huggins personally, but Id like to believe he'll keep his word. Just my opinion.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Wow...what a forgiving lot?!?!

Not even an apology? We're listening to what our customers want...meaning for HOC/HS not to shill their own auctions and basically rob their customers of their hard earned cash?

And from this moment on...we're not going to steal your $$$ anymore?!?!

And many of you are ok with this...end of story? WOW!

There was no shill bidding here. Shill bidding is placing a bid for the purpose of bumping a bidder who has a max bid to a higher level. You are wrong to accuse Bill Huggins of unethical conduct. You may have a legitimate disagreement with him about the practice of house accounts bidding to win, but to leap from there to accusing him of being unethical is just wrong. It is unfortunate that others who agree with me will not speak up.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There was no shill bidding here. Shill bidding is placing a bid for the purpose of bumping a bidder who has a max bid to a higher level. You are wrong to accuse Bill Huggins of unethical conduct. You may have a legitimate disagreement with him about the practice of house accounts bidding to win, but to leap from there to accusing him of being unethical is just wrong. It is unfortunate that others who agree with me will not speak up.

Peter.

Facts speak louder than words. Not accusing H&S of anything nefarious, but the fact remains that every time they bid a lot up, they screwed the other bidders. Glad that he's stopped it, but it doesn't change the fact that it happened. End of story.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Peter.

Facts speak louder than words. Not accusing H&S of anything nefarious, but the fact remains that every time they bid a lot up, they screwed the other bidders. Glad that he's stopped it, but it doesn't change the fact that it happened. End of story.

I don't agree Kenny. If someone is willing to pay more than I am, I don't feel screwed, I feel outbid. It doesn't matter to me if the higher bidder is inside or outside, if the bid is legitimate.

[Kenny Cole]

Peter,

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, although the posts and the response seem to indicate that it is in the minority. Everything that I would say has already been said, but my thought is that if I'm outbid by an actual bidder, then I'm outbid. If I'm outbid by the house because it didn't get what they were hoping for, or I won it for more than I should have paid because I got bid up by the auction house, then IMO, I got screwed. Most posters here seem to agree

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't agree Kenny. If someone is willing to pay more than I am, I don't feel screwed, I feel outbid. It doesn't matter to me if the higher bidder is inside or outside, if the bid is legitimate.

Hi POLLYANNA

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Peter.

Facts speak louder than words. Not accusing H&S of anything nefarious, but the fact remains that every time they bid a lot up, they screwed the other bidders. Glad that he's stopped it, but it doesn't change the fact that it happened. End of story.

I'm stunned that there are collectors who apparently think this is no biggie and now that the policy has changed everything is ok. Has anyone asked whether or not House ofcards does the same type pf thing with their Ebay auctions.
In my opinion it is certainly unethical for an auction house to bid on their own auctions.

Dave Krabal

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Wow...what a forgiving lot?!?!

Not even an apology? We're listening to what our customers want...meaning for HOC/HS not to shill their own auctions and basically rob their customers of their hard earned cash?

And from this moment on...we're not going to steal your $$$ anymore?!?!

And many of you are ok with this...end of story? WOW!

Now that Mr. Huggins has responded to forum opinion and changed the policy, what more of true substance can he do to correct the situation? Submit to flogging? Cut off his ear and send it to you? Just curious.

[ullmandds]

Well Golly Gee...an apology would be nice?

[ullmandds]

Admission of wrong doing would be nice?!

[ullmandds]

I'm done with this "discussion!"

It seems I am in the minority here of those that expect more from the businesses we deal with in this hobby and beyond. I expect honesty and integrity...and when someone F$cks up...I expect an apology...and then I can and usually do...move on!

I used to go to house of cards when I lived in MD back in the 90's and I always enjoyed my experiences there. Personally...H & S hardly ever offers anything in their auctions that I'm interested in...so I will most likely never bid in their auctions anyway.

I'm just a bit sick and tired of the mentality that has been propogating that businesses can rip people off at will...until they get caught...and then they just stop without any repercussions.

So I'll just group H&S/HOC with the Madolphs...and the banks...and most of the finance world that basically raped the country of their money...with nary a slap on the wrist!

God Bless America!

[kcohen]

I said "of substance." Such window dressing changes nothing. Reasonable people are satisfied with a resolution to a problem. Declare victory and move on.

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Admission of wrong doing would be nice?!

yeah, I agree. an admision and an apology would be nice. It almost seems like they are mad that this was discovered....like someone ruined their good thing

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by kcohen

Now that Mr. Huggins has responded to forum opinion and changed the policy, what more of true substance can he do to correct the situation? Submit to flogging? Cut off his ear and send it to you? Just curious.

Leave the ear. Send cannoli.