overrated and underrated

[HRBAKER]

I think that Frank Robinson may be the all-time underrated player.

[4k6]

In relation to card prices, most overrated = Mantle

I just don't get why his cards sell for several times more than a comparable (for instance) Aaron or Mays.

[matty6]

Emmitt Smith? Wow.

I still remember him seperating his shoulder and refusing to come out of the game. He played the whole game versus the Giants, the number one defense in the league, and totaled 168 yards rushing and ten catches. And this wasn't any regular season game. It was for the NFC East Championship.

"We see him walk off the field holding his arm, and we think he is hurt," Giant linebacker Michael Brooks said. "But he still ran through us."

Yes. Emmitt had the best offensive line in the league. Yes. Emmitt probably reaped the benefits of having Novacek, Irving and Harper as receivers, but the SOB was as tough as they come.

[daves_resale_shop]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I think that Frank Robinson may be the all-time underrated player.

I agree with Jeff here, but from the deadball era

under rated: Cravath, Donlin, Ruelbach

Over rated: tinker, evers, chance

[Touch'EmAll]

Yes, with relation to card prices, Mantle is over rated.

And also, yes, Frank Robinson is underrated - look at the stats, just a teeny tiny smidgen behind Aaron/Mays, yet his card prices seem too low. Try to find a really nice 1962 topps F.Roby or even a nice centered 1969 F. Roby - tough.

Good points about O. Vizquel - great shortstop.

[Chris-Counts]

Overrated: Clemente, Mantle, Tinkers, Evers, Chance and half the players in the Hall of Fame who were teammates of Frankie Frisch.
Underrated: Minnie Minoso, Stan Musial, Frank Robinson, Arky Vaughan and the teammates of Tinkers, Evers & Chance.

[matty6]

Just wondering why Cal Ripken is overrated?

[39special]

Originally Posted by matty6

Just wondering why Cal Ripken is overrated?

He averaged 159 hits,21 HRs,84 RBI,82 runs scored,.276 avg for his career over 20 years.Also the streak was incredible,but there were games he should
have not played due to bad slumps.I think toward the end of his streak,he was thinking more of himself,then his team.I think he should be in the HOF,but I think he is overrated.JMO.

[alanu]

Originally Posted by 39special

He averaged 159 hits,21 HRs,84 RBI,82 runs scored,.276 avg for his career over 20 years.Also the streak was incredible,but there were games he should
have not played due to bad slumps.I think toward the end of his streak,he was thinking more of himself,then his team.I think he should be in the HOF,but I think he is overrated.JMO.

In Cal's defense, those numbers are only behind Banks for a modern day player who played most of their career as a shortstop and the Orioles were so bad for most of the end of his career, they didn't have any options better than even a subpar Ripken.

The streak also helped bring baseball back after the strike and in retrospect the McGwire-Sosa home run race that also helped bring baseball back was really just a hoax... not sure how that last part defends Cal though.

[matty6]

I'm a Marland boy and was fortunate enough to see Ripken come up as a rookie and retire an Oriole. I've heard all the arguments against Ripken and though he doesn't have the gaudy stats: .300+ avg, 500 hr, etc, Ripken's greatness goes unseen by the casual observer. He did win two MVPs and very easily could have won it in 84. In his MVP years he was easily the best player in his league.

Between 1988-1993, Ripken's teams were horrible. He had zero protection and pitchers simply gave him nothing to hit. He was forced to swing at crap because he WAS the offense, giving him not many chances to square up the baseball.

The Streak, as panned as it was by critics, is a testament to his willingness to show up for work every day. During those years, he was not only the offense but another coach on the field. Ripken was legendary for his placement on hitters, knowing every hitters' tendencies. He also called the pitches from SS, relaying them to the young and less knowledgeable Mickey Tettleton or Chris Hoiles.

As far as Ripken taking a day off, this Oriole fan would much rather have a nicked up Ripken there rather than a Manny Alexander or Juan Bonilla. His positioning on cut offs and relays were not only impeccable but also made an impression on Alan Trammel who told a story once about how Ripken positioned himself differently in relays than anyone else. After Trammel noticed during infield warmups at an all-star weekend he questioned Ripken about. Ripken went on to give him a ten minute explanation as to why he did it that way. Trammel went on to use what he learned from Cal from that day til the day he retired.

Bill James had weekend tickets to the Orioles and Royals once. He decided to to focus on Ripken the whole weekend, BP, pre-game, and between innings. James writes that during that whole weekend he never saw Ripken make a bad throw. Every throw was square in the chest of the target. Not in the face, not below the belt, not right or left. Square in the chest. It must have been 2000 throws or so. But that was Cal. This is what we Os fans were used to.

One year he made only 3 errors I think it was a .996 pct. Teammates rave about his work ethic and how amazing he was as a teammate. Ripken never sat NOT because of selfishness but because coming to work every day was the way only he knew. I never recalled any teammates complaining about Ripken being in the line up either.

Teammates also recall his uncanny ability to heal. Brady Anderson remembers Rip getting drilled with a 90 plus fastball on the arm in the first inning of a game. By the eighth inning the welt and bruise were gone. True story.

Ripken's legend goes far above his above average stats. His greatness and legend are fed by the things a casual onlooker doesn't see - his fielding, his leadership, his loyalty, his knowledge and his toughness.

Though his stats are underwhelming, as a complete baseball player, we will be hard-pressed to see another Cal.