T206 Buyers Beware

Jaybird · #1 03-02-2012, 12:21 PM

maybe, but what about the caption?

Runscott · #2 03-02-2012, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaybird

maybe, but what about the caption?

Doh! nevermind.

iggyman · #3 03-02-2012, 12:42 PM

Perhaps a silly observation but on the Sovereign Mathewson (the PSA graded card), the alignment of the name on the bottom is a little bit off. If you focus on his bottom shirt button, you will see what I mean. Here is the Soverign followed by the Tolstoi card:

mathtest2.JPG

mathtest5.JPG

If you look at the Tolstoi Mathewson, the "W" and "S" more or less align with the bottom button (that is how it should be). But on the Sovereign Mathewson, the "S" aligns with the button. Not sure if it means anything...........all the Mathewson's that I see align just like the raw Tolstoi (consistently with the "W" and "S" under the button).

mathcombo2.jpg

Lovely Day...

Abravefan11 · #4 03-02-2012, 12:47 PM

Iggy - Not a silly observation but I think I can explain it. Look just above Matty's head on the Tolstoi backed example and you will see the brown color pass is off slightly. This would account for the caption also being shifted to the left.

Jaybird · #5 03-02-2012, 01:01 PM

did someone make a "Mathewson, NY" stamp? Cut the center out of the image, perhaps erase the name that was previously on the card, replace center image and stamp the name?

I dunno but just throwing it out there to see if it sticks.

This is one I had previously with it lining up on the E. Maybe there is a bit of variable here. Piedmont 150 back.

iggyman · #6 03-02-2012, 01:03 PM

Thanks Tim, I now see the faint shadow of brown on his head. Good observation and thanks for the lesson. One question, since I don't have a Mathewson in-hand at the moment. The team designation on his uniform (N.Y.) also appears to be brown??? If so, it did not shift to the left, not even a millimeter.

Lovely Day...

Abravefan11 · #7 03-02-2012, 01:10 PM

Iggy - I was just overlaying the two images and like you said the N.Y. is in the same place even though the brown run is shifted. It appears the N.Y. was printed with one of the other color passes.

iggyman · #8 03-02-2012, 10:29 PM

Perhaps I'm grasping at straws but for the better part of 30 minutes, I have been searching for T206 Mathewson portrait cards online. I've looked at high grade examples, low grade beaters, Sovereign backs, Piedmont backs, Sweet Caporal backs, one Hindu back, trimmed ones, VCP ones, major auctions ones, and a few really ugly ones. Yet, for the life of me I cannot find one example where the "S" on his name aligns underneath the lower button.

If possible, can Net54ers who have a T206 Mathewson portrait do me a favor and check to see if you have one with the name and button aligned in this manner:

mathtest2.JPG

Tim, no disrespect but I believe your analysis concerning the shifting to the left of the bottom text is incorrect. First of all, after looking at my T206 Mathewson portrait under a loupe, I'm convinced that the "N." and "Y." on his uniform are the same brown color as the bottom text. Thus, if one shifts the other should shift as well. If we find a real one that has shifted it would hopefully prove this theory. Secondly, you mentioned the brown by Mathewson head in the "Tolstoi" backed example is slightly off. That might be true, but the one in question is the SOVEREIGN Mathewson. That is the one that has shifted to the left.

Lovely Day...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Iggy - Not a silly observation but I think I can explain it. Look just above Matty's head on the Tolstoi backed example and you will see the brown color pass is off slightly. This would account for the caption also being shifted to the left.

Runscott · #9 03-02-2012, 11:43 PM

Iggy - Tim's correct about this. I've seen plenty of examples where I had two identical cards, but the name at the bottom was aligned differently (to the left or right). It's true that there will be a 'normal' alignment, but finding deviations isn't a big deal.

atx840 · #10 03-03-2012, 01:50 AM

Aligned to the left image border you can see the PB backed (2nd from the top) Hofman is shifted to the left.

alanu · #11 03-03-2012, 02:02 AM

After watching a paper restorer restore a thrashed poster on tv, I can believe almost anything can be done with these cards, given to the right person.

Abravefan11 · #12 03-03-2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iggyman

Tim, no disrespect but I believe your analysis concerning the shifting to the left of the bottom text is incorrect.

Iggy - Never any disrespect and thank you for continuing to look at it. If the caption was printed with the brown color pass it should be off like the rest of the brown in the image. But after looking at it more closely you're right and I believe the captions on the two bad cards are fake and not part of subject image that was used.

Runscott · #13 03-03-2012, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Iggy - Never any disrespect and thank you for continuing to look at it. If the caption was printed with the brown color pass it should be off like the rest of the brown in the image. But after looking at it more closely you're right and I believe the captions on the two bad cards are fake and not part of subject image that was used.

What are your thoughts on how the front was reconstructed? I can see them scraping off the original image and adding a new one, as described in my previous post, but I have a hard time seeing how anyone could scrape off the original caption and print a new one, AND get it past the graders.

Perhaps I give the graders too much credit.

Thoughts?

tedzan · #14 03-03-2012, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

What are your thoughts on how the front was reconstructed? I can see them scraping off the original image and adding a new one, as described in my previous post, but I have a hard time seeing how anyone could scrape off the original caption and print a new one, AND get it past the graders.

Perhaps I give the graders too much credit.

Thoughts?

Check-out the following scans....evident in the lower part of the Donlin card is the start of image disintegration (that is typical of white-bordered cards that have been
affected by adverse conditions).

The Piedmont 350 card (center) was a T206 Peaches Graham. It had extensive image disintegration. I carefully scraped the ink flakes off it, resulting in a "Blank Front"
T206 (seen in the right scan).

This is the start of the re-fronted process of a T206. Given the technology that exists nowadays, the entire front image of a T206 is faithfully reproduced to the extent that it will fool the Grader. A professional paper restorer will then laminate this repro front onto a real "frontless" T206. The paper restorer will repeat this process until he
creates a "fake" T206 that it is virtually un-discernable from a real one.

TED Z

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