March Pick-Ups

[David W]

Originally Posted by Volod

But, as Cliff pointed out, those 70 wins impressed the stuff out of John Holland.

Always wondered what the Cubs would have done 1967-72 if that trade had not happened.

The Cubbies did however kind of turn the tables with the Altman for Larry Jackson trade.

But with Santo, Banks, Williams, Jenkins to go with Hundley, Beckert, Kessinger, Hands, Holtzman, Pappas, Monday, Abernathy, you would think they blunder into something in that time frame.

[Volod]

Originally Posted by David W

The Cubbies did however kind of turn the tables with the Altman for Larry Jackson trade.

But with Santo, Banks, Williams, Jenkins to go with Hundley, Beckert, Kessinger, Hands, Holtzman, Pappas, Monday, Abernathy, you would think they blunder into something in that time frame.

...add Brock to that group and how do they go into that flop in the last weeks of the '69 season? I don't think the Mets would have caught them. And if you subtract Lou from the '67 and '68 Cards - Al's POV notwithstanding - maybe it's not enough to get the young Cubs there, but would the Cards have enough to get past the Dodgers or Pirates, I wonder. Nice sarcastic rub-in with the Altman-Jackson trade comparison. As a lifelong Cubs fan by choice, not birth, it's even worse for me than for Cliff. Probably shouldn't have dredged up these ancient painful memories.

[ALR-bishop]

Agree he may have been the tipping point in 64, 67 and 68. Getting Cepeda was also a factor


The Brock deal helped make up for the Cardinals later trading Carlton for Rick Wise

[David W]

Growing up in Central Ill in the 70's, it was half and half Cubs vs Cards.

My most painful summer was 78 going 3 and 15 vs the Cubs, and having to hear it from my Cub fan friends all year.

[theseeker]

The Cubs desperately were looking for a solution to their only weakness, CF, throughout the '69 season. They traded Brock because they felt the only position he could play was LF, manned by sweet swinging Billy Williams.

Typical shortsighted Cubbie thinking. As Bill James would later show, Brock's offensive contributions, as one of the games greatest leadoff hitters, in that stacked lineup would have more than made up for his notoriously weak arm, while playing CF. Besides Williams could have moved to 1B with Brock sliding over to LF after Banks retired.

Yet, the '69 season is still looked upon with fondness for Cubs fans despite the August collapse. Growing up in suburban Chicago, that season is my first sports memory. I've managed to collect a insane hoard of memorabilia from that season since then-- the Jewel picture set, mugs, 8x10 autos........everything except for those cheesy facsimile autograghed balls they sold at Wrigley Field. I bought several on Ebay being sold as 1969 balls that ended up being 1967, 1970, 1971

[Robextend]

[ALR-bishop]

Rob---great Aaron. I love that set

David...forget the 70s and 90s...concentrate on 64/67/68/82/85/87/04/06 and 11...and let Cubs fans contemplate 1908

[frankpt]

I just picked these 2 up. The 67 is a 2nd series pack/Mantle series.

[Volod]

Originally Posted by theseeker

The Cubs desperately were looking for a solution to their only weakness, CF, throughout the '69 season. They traded Brock because they felt the only position he could play was LF, manned by sweet swinging Billy Williams.

Typical shortsighted Cubbie thinking. As Bill James would later show, Brock's offensive contributions, as one of the games greatest leadoff hitters, in that stacked lineup would have more than made up for his notoriously weak arm, while playing CF. Besides Williams could have moved to 1B with Brock sliding over to LF after Banks retired.

Yet, the '69 season is still looked upon with fondness for Cubs fans despite the August collapse. Growing up in suburban Chicago, that season is my first sports memory. I've managed to collect a insane hoard of memorabilia from that season since then-- the Jewel picture set, mugs, 8x10 autos........everything except for those cheesy facsimile autograghed balls they sold at Wrigley Field. I bought several on Ebay being sold as 1969 balls that ended up being 1967, 1970, 1971

Right, still have poignant memories of that '69 folderoo season. As a college student in Indiana and a Cubs fan since they hired Durocher, was waiting for WS ticks to be published so i could drive up and watch a couple games in Wrigley. Man, was i bummed when they collapsed - especially when the gd Mets jumped over the corpse. I believe Brock nursed a grudge against the Cubs, maybe thought they didn't give him a good chance. Recall him during '69 sneering at them and blasting Santo for that "bush-league" trick he had of clicking his heels after a Cubs win.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Volod

Right, still have poignant memories of that '69 folderoo season. As a college student in Indiana and a Cubs fan since they hired Durocher, was waiting for WS ticks to be published so i could drive up and watch a couple games in Wrigley. Man, was i bummed when they collapsed - especially when the gd Mets jumped over the corpse. I believe Brock nursed a grudge against the Cubs, maybe thought they didn't give him a good chance. Recall him during '69 sneering at them and blasting Santo for that "bush-league" trick he had of clicking his heels after a Cubs win.

Brock has a grudge against the Cubs to this day, you would think that he would grateful about being traded away by them. To be fair to John Holland, he did pull the trigger on some very good trades for the Cubs, Fergie Jenkins with the Phillies, Randy Hundley and Bill Hands with the Giants, Larry Jackson with the Cardinals, drafting Glenn Beckert from the Red Sox, but his legacy will always be the Lou Brock trade.