T206 upside down backs "should they be on the back run?"

[atx840]

Never thought about the reds, I guess due to them being not overly rare considering and multiple examples of each (I think) this was a deliberate change similar to the apple greens.

A Br Lenox and Black Lenox can be found with the same front (Cobb off, Jordan, Lajoie etc) but not with the Hindus or apples. I feel this brown batch was a test or wrong color put on one/two or sheets and that's it.

I also am a novice to these types of things

[E93]

My guess is that they ran out of black ink on one of the runs and said, "WTF, lets just run some with brown until we get more black ink tomorrow." Of course this is conjecture, but if something like that is true, it would make it a legit back variation. I think Wonka (Hi John), makes a great comparison with the red Hindus.
JimB

[mrvster]

...please play around / add/ delete move ect...

rarity ranking....i say rarity because they are ALL rare....

THIS HAS NEVER BEEN DONE AND I'm GOING TO TAKE A STABBER and half asleep



note: these errors are GENERAL classifications...


I HAVE A SNOW FLAKE THEORY....each printer scrap is unique unto itself..and can vary greatly in value....they are so rare that price cannot be determined and rarity is a relative term...some just can not be classified such as my kruger scraps, and multiple problem / one of a kind scraps, they are just un classifiable, too many issues with the card...these cards are in a catagory by themself...IMPOSSIBLE

MAYBE MULTI - WHAMMYS?????????????????



HERE we GO:


1) brown om or cobb(both same rarity)


2)blank backed proof with design change(leon's matty)

3)blank back proof w no design change


4) ghost image front different player/overprint /multi stamp / print ect(CAN BE SCRAP OR FACT ISSUED)*****not "wet stacked" and ACTUALLY PRINTED

example: downey overprint front/ my bender/ my chance cycle over print front ect....

5) ghost image back overprint/multi print( CAN BE SCRAP OR FACT ISSUED) ****not wet stacked....WEIMER, CHANCE, GILBERT, anything directly PRINTED at factory


6) top to bottom front miscut showing a different player(like jamie hull's example) can be scrap or factory cut, they are just impossible

7) full caption jump(del howard/randall) totally outside border and in picture

8)front player miscut side to side showing another player being able to destinguish the player(either fact cut or scrap, they are near impossible)


9) severe front miscut top to bottom (jordan/knight)


10) all missing color scrap- ghost faces/ sever color missing

11)yellow browns / depeds on back/amount of color missing

12) blank back problems on front

13) blank back no problems on front

14)upside down printer scraps/ 4 or 2 backs ect(have to be PRINT SCRAP since we have to include a fact cut example on the mainsteam list( 4 backs are tufer than 2




the top 14 listed are near impossible cards and i'm sure i'm missing some / tired right now....here are the "less " dramatic sub set
15) missing magentas


16) fact back stamp

17) front miscut showing different player name

18) severe back miscuts 25% or more (top to bottom tufer than side to side)

19) double exposure front ghosts w next player negative present on either side or top to bottom, they are tufer

20)double exposure ghost front same player

21) missing color (magentas) fact cut- sweeney no b boston players ect

22) font/plate problems- hemphill, nodgrass, ect

23) printers crop marks, the bigger the better

24) missing color pass one or more cards are fact cut

25) side to side miscut front small portion/top to bottom front not as tuf as side to side


26) color variations orange back grounds quality control/color shifts/ drunken registers

27) wet stacked fronts/backs(the more dramatic the better)

28) same player name top to bottom front(full name at top and bottom scarcer)



remember, this is just a rough draft slapped together, please add delete move or help

PEACE

JOHNNY v

[Blitzu]

Johnny, I respect the time and effort you put into that list but I think you're comparing apples to orangs and have strayed too far from the concept of a "back" list. I still don't see any reason why the current list needs to modified. Nothing new has been identified to prompt a change. But, for a sublist it's nice.

Jared

[Rob D.]

The idea that one of the larger lithographic companies in the United States ran out of black ink is indeed an interesting theory.

[E93]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

The idea that one of the larger lithographic companies in the United States ran out of black ink is indeed an interesting theory.

Anything is possible. Alternatively, maybe someone running the press one night grabbed dark brown instead of black by mistake. Either way they would be legitimate variations.

On a related note, I think we will find many more examples of the brown Lenox back. It is only very recently becoming widely known in the hobby, and I am sure there are examples that have gone unnoticed in collections for decades.
JimB

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by E93

On a related note, I think we will find many more examples of the brown Lenox back.

Anything is possible.

It would be fun to see many more surface and hit the auction blocks.

[mrvster]

I only think that UPSIDE DOWN BACK FACTORY CUT NEEDS TO BE ADDED to the mainstream list above uzit....the other list IS AN ALTERNATIVE LIST
i think your missing the point....

UPSIDE DOWN BACK NEEDS TO BE ADDED(doesn't matter if a 4 back or 2 or 3, can even be a scrap if there is controversy)!!!!! imho above uzit or right at bl 460/ actually rarer than bl 460 imho come to think about it...............Why have Brown old mill cobb and blank back on the mainstream list???????????? all 3 weren't even issued to be distributed in packs????? most upside down backs (except for the printers scrap if u are able to differentiate) are FACTORY CUT.....they have more of a right to be on the list than the others listed above, heck, someone got them in a pack and probably tossed them cause they were "defective"......

Jared, i think your resistant to change in all due respect.....

CHANGE MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND....


how do we improve lists and things in our life if we don't change??

years ago no one cared about t206 errors and alot of collectors didn't give a crap about rare back t206, now look at them

Yes- things have changed....collectors become more educated when more info is shared and we have forums like this, brainstorming, free flowing ideas, the internet, talking with other knowledgeable and expereinced collectors ...

and yes being wrong(cause i am wrong sometimes)....but this time i know i'm right


AND THANK GOD T206 RESOURCE.COM!!!

i can finally reference backs/checklists etc because i'm a little unorganized sometimes...

Jared- i love your input, but that error list was my feeble attempt to classify and organize a semi cohesive list of all these freaks around meLOL


thoughts???


help????