Reporting live from the Hunts Ted Williams auction

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

http://www.lelands.com/Auction/Aucti...e-Signed-Photo

I'm at the end of this journey. Thanks to Dave for the bargain on Lot # 37. It's taken me 5 minutes to find exemplars others say didnt exist.

No one said they didn't exist. If you are happy with the examples that you found, and with the signature you bought, then that's all that counts.

I'm overly-cautious when I buy autographed items, and the 'good' examples I found did not match up. But as I stated previously (I think, twice), the thing that bothered me was that no one had any information to give you, despite all the experts on this forum. I finally spoke up with some detail, you found examples, the experts came out of the closet. It's all good.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by Runscott

No one said they didn't exist. If you are happy with the examples that you found, and with the signature you bought, then that's all that counts.

I'm overly-cautious when I buy autographed items, and the 'good' examples I found did not match up. But as I stated previously (I think, twice), the thing that bothered me was that no one had any information to give you, despite all the experts on this forum. I finally spoke up with some detail, you found examples, the experts came out of the closet. It's all good.

If you don't think the Leyland's example is close to the one I bought then we'll agree to disagree, but then that's the major problem with this entire business, isn't it? I appreciate your candor and you did force the "experts" to come out of the closet. It is very curious that no one stepped up to offer an opinion here other than yourself. I will probably submit this to JSA as well and see what happens.

[travrosty]

it's just two guys opinion, grad and spence, they don't know any more than you, me or the guys who showed the examples here.

the problem is that if someone like me, richard, or another knowledgable collector on this forum took our time, we could find and catalogue the exemplars shown here and figure it out. but it would take a few hours, jsa and psa don't have a few hours for each autograph they precert.

that is why they have a few minutes to give it thumbs up, thumbs down, or no opinion, which they rarely give a no opinion. that's why their opinion has to be taken with a big grain of salt. they don't have the time to do a thorough investigation.

If it took 7 days of researching for them to figure out that the photo was indeed signed by williams in a vintage form of his signature, then that is something they won't do, because 7 days of salary to them isn't worth it.

but the truth doesn't have a time limit. you can do your own searching, take as much time as you like, and figure it out yourself. and your opinion on the final outcome of whether it is real or not is just as valid, and actually even more valid than the 10 minutes they spent to give an opinion that is under the gun vis-a-vis a time limit.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by travrosty

it's just two guys opinion, grad and spence, they don't know any more than you, me or the guys who showed the examples here.

the problem is that if someone like me, richard, or another knowledgable collector on this forum took our time, we could find and catalogue the exemplars shown here and figure it out. but it would take a few hours, jsa and psa don't have a few hours for each autograph they precert.

that is why they have a few minutes to give it thumbs up, thumbs down, or no opinion, which they rarely give a no opinion. that's why their opinion has to be taken with a big grain of salt. they don't have the time to do a thorough investigation.

If it took 7 days of researching for them to figure out that the photo was indeed signed by williams in a vintage form of his signature, then that is something they won't do, because 7 days of salary to them isn't worth it.

but the truth doesn't have a time limit. you can do your own searching, take as much time as you like, and figure it out yourself. and your opinion on the final outcome of whether it is real or not is just as valid, and actually even more valid than the 10 minutes they spent to give an opinion that is under the gun vis-a-vis a time limit.

Agreed Travis. Thank you for your insight and help.

[travrosty]

another collector had posted his 1939 signed photo of ted williams signed front and back on another thread. another pointy bottomed W in each signature, for what it is worth.

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by travrosty

another collector had posted his 1939 signed photo of ted williams signed front and back on another thread. another pointy bottomed W in each signature, for what it is worth.

I nearly bought this in Boston last year. I appreciate the post Travis. A truck load of variations in his 1939-1940 signatures. Who the hell knows in the end.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

I nearly bought this in Boston last year. I appreciate the post Travis. A truck load of variations in his 1939-1940 signatures. Who the hell knows in the end.

Yeah, it's odd how many things are different in Ted's autograph during that period. Last night I placed four examples next to each other and there were some very odd differences that would not have come naturally for him - concerted effort to change the direction he moved his pen, or some of them were not done by him.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by travrosty

it's just two guys opinion, grad and spence, they don't know any more than you, me or the guys who showed the examples here.

the problem is that if someone like me, richard, or another knowledgable collector on this forum took our time, we could find and catalogue the exemplars shown here and figure it out. but it would take a few hours, jsa and psa don't have a few hours for each autograph they precert.

that is why they have a few minutes to give it thumbs up, thumbs down, or no opinion, which they rarely give a no opinion. that's why their opinion has to be taken with a big grain of salt. they don't have the time to do a thorough investigation.

If it took 7 days of researching for them to figure out that the photo was indeed signed by williams in a vintage form of his signature, then that is something they won't do, because 7 days of salary to them isn't worth it.

but the truth doesn't have a time limit. you can do your own searching, take as much time as you like, and figure it out yourself. and your opinion on the final outcome of whether it is real or not is just as valid, and actually even more valid than the 10 minutes they spent to give an opinion that is under the gun vis-a-vis a time limit.

Having worked for PSA in the distant past, I know what you speak of when you talk about under the gun with a time limit.
I am sure that Ron Gordon and Jim Stinson will remember being rushed to do our jobs and the one time we asked to stay over another night to do the job properly and we were turned down by the powers that be.

[Splinte1941]

If you guys are interested in helping me gain some more insight into this signature please PM me. I am willing to compensate you for your time.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Having worked for PSA in the distant past, I know what you speak of when you talk about under the gun with a time limit.

Richard, you know it!

For regular auction lots in a huge auction, they have a few minutes, then they will move on to the next item. if it is a blockbuster item, maybe they will spend more time on it.

if their time is worth 250 dollars an hour, then a 25 dollar submission is worth about 6 minutes of their time. if they spend more than that, they are losing money. so they will go with their best guess. what they should really do is give a no opinion most of the time if they don't know.

but they dont like to do that for 2 reasons.

#1. they don't get paid for it if they give a no opinion.

#2. they think that the collector thinks it is a sign of weakness. if they give a no opinion, then the collector sends it to the other company, which gives an opinion, they think the collector thinks that the first company doesn't know what they are doing because the 2nd company certed it, so the first company kind of feels pressured to give an opinion one way or the other so not to be seen as wishy washy.

what they don't realize is that an honest no opinion is nothing to be embarrassed about. not every autograph in the world can be figured out and it is honest and ethical to give a no opinion.

a no opinion does NOT mean the autograph is bad. some collectors think that this is what it means, but it doesn't. It simply means they cant give a definite opinion one way or another. it still might be good, might not be. but a no opinion is not a death sentence.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Splinte1941

If you don't think the Leyland's example is close to the one I bought then we'll agree to disagree, but then that's the major problem with this entire business, isn't it? I appreciate your candor and you did force the "experts" to come out of the closet. It is very curious that no one stepped up to offer an opinion here other than yourself. I will probably submit this to JSA as well and see what happens.

??? I didn't say anything about the Leyland's example. I'm glad that some good examples have been found that are almost certainly legitimate, that show the pointy-bottomed 'W'.

If you and I had spoken before you bought this photo, I would have said, "The 'W' looks weird - it's pointy-bottomed, and that's not how Williams normally signed. If you really want this photo, go dig around and find examples with pointy-bottomed 'W's, and let's compare them very carefully and decide what the odds are that they are legit."

[Splinte1941]

Originally Posted by Runscott

??? I didn't say anything about the Leyland's example. I'm glad that some good examples have been found that are almost certainly legitimate, that show the pointy-bottomed 'W'.

If you and I had spoken before you bought this photo, I would have said, "The 'W' looks weird - it's pointy-bottomed, and that's not how Williams normally signed. If you really want this photo, go dig around and find examples with pointy-bottomed 'W's, and let's compare them very carefully and decide what the odds are that they are legit."

I misunderstood. My bad. Thanks.