A Word about 40K Bats - Babe Ruth , Ty Cobb, etc.

[MacDice]

It can be very difficult if not impossible to prove who actually swing a bat without photo matching. In my years coaching, I have seen several players using "big league" wood that could be very easily passed as game used bat of the player whose name was on the barrell. Last summer I had a kid that broke 4 bats in 5 games all of which came directly from a MLB clubhouse in spring training. He could have easily sold them on eBay with very little questions.

[Mark]

"(2) Do we know how these bats typically survived to modern times? For example, other than Ruth giving a bat away to a friend or fan, how did the public typically get these bats? Do most of them come from the player's estate? Or did some people just find a bunch of bats at the bat company? For example, many old photos are found when the archives of newspapers go on sale. Did something happen for bats in a similar way? e.g., at the end of every year, the Yankees would sell/give away old bats/memorabilia to the public."

A good number of bats were saved by family, friends, and fans. That is how I got my first old bats. But the big event was in the early 1990's, when Hillerich and Bradsby sold their inventory of game used bats. Over the years, these bats had been sent to them by players for use as models for future bats. There were, if I recall, about 8000 bats in that sale, and about 10% were from hall of fame players. The marks placed by the factory on one of these bats is considered evidence that this player used the bat in games. Not many of these side written bats exist for any particular player.

[BigJJ]

What I am saying is that there are pro model 40ks and pro model 125s.

AND it is my understanding that they (40k and 125) are identifiable as "pro model" to the same extent as each another.

What you have written confirms this I believe. Please add any additional information to this thread, that a 40k (without inch marks etc.) is in any way a lesser bat to a 125 (without inch marks etc.).

I agree regarding inch marks, etc. and have amended the above, though this is not the heart of what I wanted to discuss - which is the weight given to 40k versus 125, when it is my understanding they are pro model to the same extent.

What does not make sense to me is the difference in value between a 125 and a 40k - of a player with ordering records, or photos, or other evidence, of having used both models. Do you disagree? Again the heart of this is the weight given to 125 versus 40k and if there is any evidence as to 125 being any more pro model than 40k.

I am convinced the difference in values between 125 and 40k stem from a lack of knowledge. This is the only explanation, in my opinion, when it is my understanding that both are pro model to the same extent - unless others have evidence that a 40k is any less of a bat to a 125, or vice versa.

[murphusa]

Like the internet, if it's in an auction catalog it must be true.

if you take your time to read through auction descriptions they tell you they aren't really sure. In one instance, Mears tells you that the first was a Wagner, then a Cobb.

They list a Cobb article from December 20, 1913 asking H&B to come up with a cork bat for use in 1914

One of their other reserchers says because the copyright say September 1914 then the bats were not used till the 1915 season.

Logic would tell you that like anyone, players would not experiment with new things during the season, but they would try stuff out in spring training.

Is that where the pictures come from?

if the bats are to the players specs? Then haven't the specs changed as they have now added weight, ever so small to the handle of the bat.

If you add cork or another substance to the handle hasn't the grip become bigger or did they cut down on the handle so it was the same thickness as a non cork bat.

If so then they are not the same specs

why buy a question?

[Bill Rayburn]

I don't want to enter the "game used" question, I will defer to Matt and Jim on that. As far as who was first, regardless of Patent Date, Spalding produced cork handle bats in the late 1800's as well as cord grip and some other interesting innovations.

[Mark]

Troy Kinunen:

http://http://www.mearsonline.com/in...t01returnid=98

[BigJJ]

Thank you for relaying Troy's article -

http://www.mearsonline.com/index.php...t01returnid=98