What 1912 stadium is this?

BOB52 · #1 05-19-2012, 06:20 PM

JollyElm ~

Congratulations again for identifying Hilltop Park. When you get a minute please tell us how you made the connection.

Thanks.

Bob

JollyElm · #2 05-20-2012, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOB52

JollyElm ~

Congratulations again for identifying Hilltop Park. When you get a minute please tell us how you made the connection.

Thanks.

Bob

Hey Bob.
Quite frankly, it was mostly a matter of luck. I get obsessed with puzzles and brain teasers and what not, so when I stumbled upon this thread I wanted nothing more than to solve it.

Here's my method of CSI on this case (since they always use Who tunes for the theme songs, press play on my personal favorite, 'Love Ain't For Keeping'):

Even though the OP posted it was a shot from 1912, I first theorized that it's possible it may have been from a year or two before or after that date, although I knew it was a longshot. My main thinking there was that Bennett Park (home of the Tigers) closed in 1911 and Fenway opened in 1912, so maybe it could have been taken in one of the stadiums that were no longer opened in 1912. And when I saw a couple of pictures of Cobb, supposedly taken in 1912, that showed him in a different type of away uniform than in the photo in question, I realized looking from around 1910 to 1914 would be the way to go.

Then I theorized that the photo was taken looking towards centerfield or right field and didn't show the left field wall. It was a small leap of faith that seemed to be correct.

And then the hard work started. I began pouring through seemingly untold hundreds of photographs on-line from that timeframe looking into the distance on the right field sides. I couldn't tell what those background structures were in the original Cobb photo, as they seemed to me to look like the top of some sort of amusement ride and not buildings, but I kept an open mind. Then there was our old friend the smokestack. So I began just going through picture after picture after picture looking for that wavy black shape and a smokestack...and that's when I serendipitously stumbled upon the Lajoie photo with those exact shapes far off in the distance. Since he was also in his away uniform, it most likely eliminated Cleveland (as well as Detroit) as the sight of the photograph.

Since the buildings in the Lajoie photo seemed to be in the style of my hometown, NYC, I started looking for anything Hilltop Park related from that era...and now your lead detective takes off his sunglasses gives a look of frustration and grumbles..."and then I hit it out of the park!"

Scott Garner · #3 05-20-2012, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Hey Bob.
Quite frankly, it was mostly a matter of luck. I get obsessed with puzzles and brain teasers and what not, so when I stumbled upon this thread I wanted nothing more than to solve it.

Here's my method of CSI on this case (since they always use Who tunes for the theme songs, press play on my personal favorite, 'Love Ain't For Keeping'):

Even though the OP posted it was a shot from 1912, I first theorized that it's possible it may have been from a year or two before or after that date, although I knew it was a longshot. My main thinking there was that Bennett Park (home of the Tigers) closed in 1911 and Fenway opened in 1912, so maybe it could have been taken in one of the stadiums that were no longer opened in 1912. And when I saw a couple of pictures of Cobb, supposedly taken in 1912, that showed him in a different type of away uniform than in the photo in question, I realized looking from around 1910 to 1914 would be the way to go.

Then I theorized that the photo was taken looking towards centerfield or right field and didn't show the left field wall. It was a small leap of faith that seemed to be correct.

And then the hard work started. I began pouring through seemingly untold hundreds of photographs on-line from that timeframe looking into the distance on the right field sides. I couldn't tell what those background structures were in the original Cobb photo, as they seemed to me to look like the top of some sort of amusement ride and not buildings, but I kept an open mind. Then there was our old friend the smokestack. So I began just going through picture after picture after picture looking for that wavy black shape and a smokestack...and that's when I serendipitously stumbled upon the Lajoie photo with those exact shapes far off in the distance. Since he was also in his away uniform, it most likely eliminated Cleveland (as well as Detroit) as the sight of the photograph.

Since the buildings in the Lajoie photo seemed to be in the style of my hometown, NYC, I started looking for anything Hilltop Park related from that era...and now your lead detective takes off his sunglasses gives a look of frustration and grumbles..."and then I hit it out of the park!"

Darren,
Impressive detective work. Good job!!

BOB52 · #4 05-20-2012, 12:38 PM

horzverti ~

Good job on the eBay listing. I will be watching it with interest. I hope you don't mind my posting this link for others to enjoy ...

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400298575004...84.m1438.l2649

jollyElm ~

Thanks for sharing your detective talents with us. You are to be commended. If possible, I would like to employ your talents once again in trying to help make sense of something that continues to puzzle me involving the right field fence itself ...

Just this morning I came across another thread involving Hilltop Park. The thread is from a website called "Baseball Fever" and is dated 2008. The thread starter is an individual by the name of Philmore. The thread is 4 pages long and includes some great vintage photos of Hilltop. The link I am providing goes straight to page 2 where I found some interesting photos of the right field fence, a couple of which I have included below.

First of all, here's the link to page 2 ...

Hilltop Thread: Page 2 of 4: http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...top-Park/page2

Scroll down to Reply #39 and you will find the pictures I'm referring to which are dated 1912. Now take a real close look at the portion of the fence to the left of the "Coronet Dry Gin" sign. This is the best close up I have found so far and is similar to the one I posted earlier with the red arrow and "thought" was the Wayne Knit Hosiery sign. But upon closer inspection I now believe it is "not" the Wayne Knit Hosiery sign. Especially notice the style of the W in horzverti's photo and compare it to whatever that letter is in the other photos. Also compare the wording at the bottom of both photos. After studying them at some length, I am now of the opinion that they are two different signs. Please check them out for yourself using you xray detective eyes and see what you make of it. And if you agree that the sign in the 2008 thread doesn't say Wayne Knit Hosiery, perhaps you can figure out what it does say.

There is absolutely no question in my mind that horzverti's Ty Cobb photo ...

1. Is from 1912.
2. Was taken at Hilltop Park.
3. Reads "Wayne Knit ..." on the fence.

However, I do question the wording on the other photos. And if the other photos are in fact from 1912 and do not say "Wayene Knit Hosiery," then exactly where is the real 1912 "Wayne Knit Hosiery" sign"

I hope I'm not driving anyone nuts with this. Its just that I'm puzzled and need some help figuring it out.

Something about the fence just doesn't jive, but I'm not sure what it is.

Will the "Real" Wayne Knit Hosiery fence please stand up!

Thanks.

BOB52

PS ~

Just for the fun of it I am including a picture of the "Venus Pencils" sign that was discussed earlier in this thread. It too is from the 2008 Baseball Fever thread and is shown there on reply #37

BOB52 · #5 05-20-2012, 12:47 PM

Dang ...

I forgot to include this 1912 Wayne Knit ad to confirm the wording ...

BOB52 · #6 05-20-2012, 01:36 PM

Hilltop Park 1909 ... I'm currently looking to confirm 1910 and 1911. The last game every played at Hilltop was in October of 1912. It was demolished in 1914.

BOB52 · #7 05-20-2012, 02:27 PM

The Hilltop photo on this link is said to be circa 1910. Which it may or may not be, especially considering the word "circa" is used. But irregardless of the exact date, it is definitely different from anything I've seen from either 1909 or 1912.

After opening the link, be sure to click-click on the photo for some great zoomed close ups. (No "Wayne Knit" or "Corono Dry Gin")

I tried saving and posting a pic, but it wouldn't transfer properly. I think it was too large.

A confirmed 1911 is what I'd really like to find.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hi...circa_1910.jpg

horzverti · #8 05-20-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOB52

horzverti ~

Good job on the eBay listing. I will be watching it with interest. I hope you don't mind my posting this link for others to enjoy ...

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400298575004...84.m1438.l2649

jollyElm ~

Thanks for sharing your detective talents with us. You are to be commended. If possible, I would like to employ your talents once again in trying to help make sense of something that continues to puzzle me involving the right field fence itself ...

Just this morning I came across another thread involving Hilltop Park. The thread is from a website called "Baseball Fever" and is dated 2008. The thread starter is an individual by the name of Philmore. The thread is 4 pages long and includes some great vintage photos of Hilltop. The link I am providing goes straight to page 2 where I found some interesting photos of the right field fence, a couple of which I have included below.

First of all, here's the link to page 2 ...

Hilltop Thread: Page 2 of 4: http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...top-Park/page2

Scroll down to Reply #39 and you will find the pictures I'm referring to which are dated 1912. Now take a real close look at the portion of the fence to the left of the "Coronet Dry Gin" sign. This is the best close up I have found so far and is similar to the one I posted earlier with the red arrow and "thought" was the Wayne Knit Hosiery sign. But upon closer inspection I now believe it is "not" the Wayne Knit Hosiery sign. Especially notice the style of the W in horzverti's photo and compare it to whatever that letter is in the other photos. Also compare the wording at the bottom of both photos. After studying them at some length, I am now of the opinion that they are two different signs. Please check them out for yourself using you xray detective eyes and see what you make of it. And if you agree that the sign in the 2008 thread doesn't say Wayne Knit Hosiery, perhaps you can figure out what it does say.

There is absolutely no question in my mind that horzverti's Ty Cobb photo ...

1. Is from 1912.
2. Was taken at Hilltop Park.
3. Reads "Wayne Knit ..." on the fence.

However, I do question the wording on the other photos. And if the other photos are in fact from 1912 and do not say "Wayene Knit Hosiery," then exactly where is the real 1912 "Wayne Knit Hosiery" sign"

I hope I'm not driving anyone nuts with this. Its just that I'm puzzled and need some help figuring it out.

Something about the fence just doesn't jive, but I'm not sure what it is.

Will the "Real" Wayne Knit Hosiery fence please stand up!

Thanks.

BOB52

PS ~

Just for the fun of it I am including a picture of the "Venus Pencils" sign that was discussed earlier in this thread. It too is from the 2008 Baseball Fever thread and is shown there on reply #37

Hi Bob,

No, I have no problem with you including the link to the auction. The more exposure, the better. Thank you.

It seems that you are becoming an expert on early 1900s Hilltop Park. Sometime in the not so distant future there will be another Hilltop Park question and you will be the guy to answer it. Thanks so much for your help.

Curt

BOB52 · #9 05-20-2012, 03:21 PM

horzverti ~

Thanks. I'm determined to find your "Wayne Knit Hosiery" fence if it kills me!

BOB52

BOB52 · #10 05-20-2012, 03:50 PM

I think I just found the "Wayne Knit Hosiery" fence. Everything looks right, including the top words as well as the bottom words that are not white. But according to the site where I found this photo, it claims to be from ... 1911

The bottom words should be ... Makes The Home Run Right

Here's the link. Scroll to post #80. Its the pic on the left.

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...tographs/page4

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