1951 Mickey Mantle TYPE 1 Photo Used to Create His 1952 TOPPS Card is now at 20K...

[Hankphenom]

...and I'm sure John Rogers and others who have been looking into this have a pretty good idea of what might be out there, but it seems likely to me that the great majority of large archives of old photos have been long since consigned to the dumpster, meaning that the relatively few to have survived will produce a comparatively small enough number of truly top quality Type I prints to keep prices high in the future, especially given the increasing demand for them among collectors.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

...and I'm sure John Rogers and others who have been looking into this have a pretty good idea of what might be out there, but it seems likely to me that the great majority of large archives of old photos have been long since consigned to the dumpster, meaning that the relatively few to have survived will produce a comparatively small enough number of truly top quality Type I prints to keep prices high in the future, especially given the increasing demand for them among collectors.

I agree. I already thought about the value if other type 1's like this one being auctioned came out. Unless a large stack of them came out I don't think it's price gets hurt. I can sort of relate it to cards. I paid a ton (relatively speaking) for the T207 Red Cross Weaver I have. When I nabbed it there were only approximately 5 T207 Red Crosses known. A couple of years ago there were approximately 5-6 more that came out. My guess, and this is only a guess, is that those new ones to the hobby didn't affect the value of the card I have...and there is a chance they even increased it's value with more awareness.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

... but it seems likely to me that the great majority of large archives of old photos have been long since consigned to the dumpster ...

I disagree. The mind-set of many people who work at newspapers is that not only do they help to report the news (and history), they help preserve it for future generations. Unlike baseball team front-office types who see no value in old player contracts that collectors would love to own, newspaper people realize that dumping an archive of photos is in effect throwing away history. For the most part, I would say the importance is realized, and steps are taken to try to preserve rather than destroy.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

I disagree. The mind-set of many people who work at newspapers is that not only do they help to report the news (and history), they help preserve it for future generations. Unlike baseball team front-office types who see no value in old player contracts that collectors would love to own, newspaper people realize that dumping an archive of photos is in effect throwing away history. For the most part, I would say the importance is realized, and steps are taken to try to preserve rather than destroy.

The only first-hand knowledge I have is of my hometown, Washington, DC, papers. At one time, there were four major dailies, and none of their photo archives have survived. Even the survivor, The Washington Post, has only a thin file of vintage photos remaining. The rest were purged long ago.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

I disagree. The mind-set of many people who work at newspapers is that not only do they help to report the news (and history), they help preserve it for future generations. Unlike baseball team front-office types who see no value in old player contracts that collectors would love to own, newspaper people realize that dumping an archive of photos is in effect throwing away history. For the most part, I would say the importance is realized, and steps are taken to try to preserve rather than destroy.

That really varies from one paper to the next, and nowadays more than ever, the finances of the paper can have a big effect. In many cases, I would wager that the only reason the paper still maintains an archive of decades-old photos is that they are kept in-house in a building that is already paid for in a space (basement) that is not in-demand for their day-to-day operation since they certainly aren't growing in terms space needed for their staff. It's simply easier to leave them where they are, and on the off chance that they need a photo of an old-time ballplayer to run, they don't have to pay the AP or Getty Images or whoever for it. If the paper is going under, consigning the old photo files to the dumpster (or whatever staff wants to cart them off) is still a very real possibility.

That is one of the biggest reasons that I think John Rogers has been so successful in prying these photo archives away from the various publications. Not only does he negotiate the purchase of the physical photos, but also returns to the paper a digital archive of the images so that they will still have those available for further publication. Most of the papers he has worked with see it as a win-win-win: they free up the space of the physical archives, they get the images in a more readily-usable form, and most importantly, they get an infusion of cash.

[Frozen in Time]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

...and I'm sure John Rogers and others who have been looking into this have a pretty good idea of what might be out there, but it seems likely to me that the great majority of large archives of old photos have been long since consigned to the dumpster, meaning that the relatively few to have survived will produce a comparatively small enough number of truly top quality Type I prints to keep prices high in the future, especially given the increasing demand for them among collectors.

Hank,

This is a very good point and I agree. One caveat (as indicated by the apparent source of this photo) is the enormous number of smaller, regional papers that have probably not gone the digitization route and may well still have archives of hard copies - as well as the possibility of collections of local sports writers that may have been passed down to family members but are just lying around somewhere.

Having considered yours and other excellent related points recently posted, I have changed my opinion slightly and now believe that we may only ever see
one or two Type 1's of this image in comparable condition in a future public auction.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by Frozen in Time

One caveat (as indicated by the apparent source of this photo) is the enormous number of smaller, regional papers that have probably not gone the digitization route and may well still have archives of hard copies - as well as the possibility of collections of local sports writers that may have been passed down to family members but are just lying around somewhere.

More food for thought: The paper I currently work at, which is one of the largest in the state, has used a digital library for photo retrieval for at least the past 15 years. Some of the hard copies of photos, which haven't been digitally archived, are still on site. The remainder are housed in an off-site facility. As far as I know, management has no plans destroy this massive photo archive.

I know that two papers I previously worked at -- one a midsize and the other a large paper -- are doing the same thing.

[Frozen in Time]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

More food for thought: The paper I currently work at, which is one of the largest in the state, has used a digital library for photo retrieval for at least the past 15 years. Some of the hard copies of photos, which haven't been digitally archived, are still on site. The remainder are housed in an off-site facility. As far as I know, management has no plans destroy this massive photo archive.

I know that two papers I previously worked at -- one a midsize and the other a large paper -- are doing the same thing.

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

The only first-hand knowledge I have is of my hometown, Washington, DC, papers. At one time, there were four major dailies, and none of their photo archives have survived. Even the survivor, The Washington Post, has only a thin file of vintage photos remaining. The rest were purged long ago.

Wow!!

You guys have me changing my position every few seconds!!! Let me put it this way, independent of how many of these '52 Topps Type 1 photos are out there and how many really do surface and are offered for sale - I JUST WANT TO GET ONE THAT I CAN AFFORD!!!!!!

I really do hope we see some more in the next few years but as Leon has posted, with this sale it is unlikely they will go for much less. Oh well, I can always dream.