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#501
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Also worth pointing out is what card this is. It's a Floyd Mayweather PSA 9 RC. This is the practically the poster child card of the Gen Z flippers/investors/crypto enthusiast type. Alternative sports like boxing, wrestling, tennis, soccer, etc are all the rage with these guys now. And so is keeping their "investments" in a PWCC vault. And they go after the GOATS. This is precisely the type of card I would expect someone like this to buy. I wouldn't even be surprised if the person who paid 11k for that card in Feb at the absolute peak of the market and then panic sold it just 2 months later probably has never even seen a Mayweather fight before in his life. If you think this is abnormal buying and selling behavior, you're simply just out of touch with a pretty significant faction of the market. This truly is "nothing to see here" activity. Last edited by Snowman; 08-22-2021 at 01:00 PM. |
#502
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Whatever Travis. Defend away. You could spin a bullet hole through the head I am sure into some ordinary ho hum thing. Talk to me when he's indicted, for now I'm done with this.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 08-22-2021 at 01:05 PM. |
#503
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He's being logical (as opposed to the pitchfork wielding mob who considers anything other than vilifying PWCC to be sheer heresy.) |
#504
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Where were all the underbidder from just 2 months earlier ? Keep trying
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#505
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I'm not defending PWCC or Brent. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see him indicted for shady behavior some day. I'm simply pointing out that these Mayweather card sales are not abnormal buying and selling behavior. If you want to find a zinger that's going to catch this guy, this isn't it.
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#506
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I have no idea what this means. But I've already explained, in great detail, why these transactions are not indicative of abnormal buying and selling behavior. If you choose to ignore that information that's fine with me. We can just agree to disagree. I'm not going to "keep trying".
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#507
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I have read through a few pages of this thread but not all. In the past what concerned me about PWCC was the trimmed graded cards that were making their way through PWCCs auctions. I told myself to avoid them or at least be extremely careful bidding on their auctions. I can also see how shill bidding had occurred, without or without their knowledge. Looking back on my wins in the last two years, only one or two have been in their auctions and because of the relatively low dollar amount, I am not concerned. With them moving off Ebay, I most likely will not follow. I would not be comfortable bidding on their auctions in cards worth more than a couple hundred dollars.
Last edited by warrior1978; 08-22-2021 at 03:17 PM. |
#508
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I'd have a lawyer by now and trying to get my money back from him and let him ream someone else with his fish stories. I wish you all the best and again, my personal apologies for the tough love. Good luck and enjoy your collection anyway you'd like. |
#509
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Akin to the people who would justified bidding on authentic stuff in Coaches Corner auctions (The auctions did have some minor JSA/PSA certed items). Irrelevant to that they were able to avoid fake items, their purchases helped keep Coaches Corner in business. |
#510
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(Why? Because PSA slabbed cards fetch more money.) |
#511
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347. Kvetch-22
The principle that the people who bitterly complain the most about PSA’s horrific business practices are the same ones who gladly keep sending in more cards to be graded, because PSA slabs deliver the highest sales prices. See also: “Hegemony Crickets!” - an expression referring to the metaphorical sound of silence as the venerated PSA refuses to ever address even a single one of the countless accusations of malfeasance made against them.
__________________
All the cool kids love my YouTube Channel:
Elm's Adventures in Cardboard Land https://www.youtube.com/@TheJollyElm Looking to trade? Here's my bucket: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152396...57685904801706 “I was such a dangerous hitter I even got intentional walks during batting practice.” Casey Stengel Spelling "Yastrzemski" correctly without needing to look it up since the 1980s. Overpaying yesterday is simply underpaying tomorrow. |
#512
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#513
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#514
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My question now is how can ANYONE trust ANYTHING that PSA has graded? It's like all of those old DiMaggio/Williams/Mantle autographs of which 90% were forged. How can you really know which from the 10% were the real ones. |
#515
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Until you get the property tax bill....
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#516
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Or as my NH friends once put it "live, Freeze and Die"
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#517
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Interesting video with a PWCC rep answering questions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3EXLzyk4fg Has Brent made an official statement about the Ebay/PWCC split? |
#518
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Wish it was all the rage with the new breed; I'd sell my collection into the rise and pay off my mortgage(s).
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... Last edited by Exhibitman; 08-23-2021 at 08:08 AM. |
#519
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What is truly amazing to me (and please ignore if someone already pointed this out) is that a search for PWCC shows TONS of sellers using "PWCC-E" and the like in their titles. I can't believe they are getting away with that.
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#520
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#521
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If the slabs have the PWCC-E sticker on the back, then that's pretty standard practice. Same with the MBA gold stickers. People usually mention those in the title. If they don't have the sticker though, then ya, that's false advertising obviously.
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#522
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Watched the You Tube video. That PWCC rep is such a sanctimonious sack of dung. You'd think PWCC never did anything suspect.
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#523
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Who are the other two people besides the pwcc employee ?
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#524
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2 Sports Cards bloggers I've never heard of.
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#525
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I think I mis-understood what they were doing. If it's just that they bought cards with those stickers, no big thing. I thought they were using PWCC in title as click bait.
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#526
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In that video the Pwcc guy said we get 5-10% higher sales because of scans, packing, and shipping methods.
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#527
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Uh huh....yea right.....I am a small time seller and I do all three of those equally, if not better than, PWCC.
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#528
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I would probably rank order the reasons for higher sale prices as follows, with #1, without question, being the primary factor that would explain the majority of the differences we see in sales prices vs the rest of the market.
Last edited by Snowman; 08-23-2021 at 03:02 PM. |
#529
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Just saw this on Twitter
__________________
Robert Klevens www.prestigecollectiblesauction.com eBay Store: http://stores.ebay.com/Prestige-Collectibles-Auction You Tube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/prestigeco...llcards/videos My personal collection: http://yakyukai.com/ |
#530
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And he STILL can't produce a back scan!
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#531
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Perhaps now he'll think he has enough business to omit the front scan too?
"1986 Fleer Michael Jordan PSA 8" "This is a stock image. You will receive a similar card to the one pictured in this listing." |
#532
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https://www.ebay.com/sch/epeco0/m.ht...1&_ipg=&_from= |
#533
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PWCC needs to do the following:
a) When the Vault Marketplace opens up next month, try to make sure that prices closely reflect today's market. In other words, stop listing them at '2020 prices,' cause' that just isn't going to work now. b) I will NOT pay a hundred US shipping for a hundred-dollar card! Seriously, WTF! And I'm not paying three-hundred US shipping for a thousand dollar card. They're obviously making profit from shipping and this needs to stop. I've bought all sorts of stuff from Americans over the past twenty years and I know just exactly how much it costs. c) Limit the amount of times someone can bid on a single auction. Anyone bidding ten or fifteen times on the same item should be given the boot. I don't care if the bids are legit and this guy has a hundred-grand in his bank account - no more games. d) Stop doing business with known card doctors. I don't know what kind of relationship Moser has or had with Brent, but PWCC needs to distance themselves from guys like him. |
#534
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#535
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That's why I stick to Bud Harrelson, Tito Fuentes, and Hunter Pence autos.... also my ONE Willie Mays auto (in a baseball book) that I got personally while seeing him at the San Jose Airport. We had a nice 20 minute chat, too.
__________________
------------------------------------------------------ illustration * design * posters www.zenpop.com |
#536
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Does anyone have an idea of what the maximum amount of time the FBI might spend would be before bringing charges in a case like the PWCC/PSA/BGS/Probstein/eBay card trimmers and shill bidding scandal?
Also, when did it start? Wasn't it about 3 years ago now? At some point, we should get to close the door on whether or not PWCC was engaged in illegal activities. If they were/are guilty of what their detractors claim, then Brent, and likely others, will be charged with crimes. At some point we no longer have to guess whether it not they were engaged in illegal activity. We'll know, because we know the FBI looked into it. If charges are brought against PWCC and/or its owners, then I think it's likely that this ebay email cutting ties with them has something to do with it. However, on the other hand, if charges are not brought against PWCC within the next 6 months? 1 year? 2 years? Then it would be safe to assume that the detractors were wrong all along and that ebay's email likely was defamatory and an attempt to tarnish the reputation of a competitor. I honestly don't know which direction I'd lean here in terms of who is and isn't guilty and what they might be guilty of. I wouldn't be surprised be either outcome (PWCC collapsing and Brent ending up behind bars or PWCC/PSA/BGS/Probstein all being exonerated). But being 3 years into this with still no charges being brought at all? That's not looking good for the haters. And with every day that passes, it looks less and less likely that they were right. How much time is left in the hourglass of this investigation? When I think about other recent FBI investigations that have been in the news, they were all wrapped up in much sooner than this one and multiple charges were brought against people at different points in time throughout the course of those investigations. Yet we still have no charges from this investigation. Could it be that it was delayed because of the pandemic perhaps? Maybe it's now just heating back up again and that's why ebay cut ties with PWCC? How much longer do we give this? At some point we either need to see some charges or we need to see some apologies. If there are still no charges by this time next year, I think I'll be pretty firmly in the "they're not guilty" camp. I think 4 years seems like it should be enough time to make that conclusion, but I don't really know. That's just a guess. Maybe these things can take 7+ years for all I know. But it sure seems unlikely to me. |
#537
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There seems to be two conflicting arguments that have arisen in this issue. One is that eBay is so huge (and they are huge) is that eBay would not miss PWCC's business, and because PWCC's business is so inconsequential to eBay, they would kick them off of eBay out of spite, in an attempt to harm a future competitor.
If PWCC's business is such a small thing to eBay, why would they bother ? Why would they see them as a threat to be concerned with ? As far as competition, almost every major card seller sells on eBay. They also sell from their websites, and some even have their own auction sites. Clean Sweep Auctions and Kevin Savage come to mind. Why doesn't eBay mind this competition ? The fact that eBay gave PWCC a sweetheart deal, only taking a one to three percent commission (as has recently been learned), definitely makes you think that eBay valued PWCC's business. So back to my original feeling, there is something more going on here. |
#538
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Quote:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/s...rgeting-natick
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#539
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#540
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#541
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I known right, petty!
Anyone remember when the Mastro "list" came out and people saw what items they were shilled on. That was a day!
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#542
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Willie Mays was nice? Now we know you're lying.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... |
#543
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Yes, you read right. We're all grown men here - not schoolchildren. Why do we need to bid ten times or more? Hmmm, let's see ... 350 ... 400 ... hehehe ... 425 ... 450 ... oh dear ... 475 ... 499 ... 501 ... hohoho ... A person bidding like that is either a) not serious about the item or b) shilling it up! Limiting the number of times an individual can bid on a particular item is a great idea and all the major auction houses should consider it! |
#544
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In other instances, I might not feel comfortable leaving max bids. Trust in an AH's bidding integrity is something earned over time, and unless and until I have developed that trust I do not leave max bids. |
#545
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Do you really think eBay put out the statement they did without having it vetted by their legal team and having ironclad proof?
__________________
Flawless BST transactions with Wondo, Marslife, arcadekrazy, Moonlight Graham, Arazi4442, wrestlingcardking and Justus. |
#546
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Not taking sides here, but have you read the link just a few posts up? Higher ups and "Fixers" in Ebay have sent bloody pigs masks, cyber-stalked, surveilled, and essentially terrorized tech bloggers who have been critical of them. They aren't known for making sound legal decisions to begin with. Billion dollar companies don't have to be quite as careful as the rest of us. Especially when all the highest executives have giant golden parachutes written into their contracts, should things somehow blow up on them. Ebay says: "Are we protected?" Legal team says: "Sure, just show us the money!" |
#547
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#548
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#549
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#550
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It's hard to legislate honesty.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
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