Judge or Raleigh for MVP?

[bk400]

I'm torn, fellas. I think I'd have to vote for Cal Raleigh. Because he probably plays the most important position on the field. All the wear and tear and the focus required defensively on every pitch. But it's tough. Can there be a tie in the voting?

[bk400]

I know there have been ties in the past -- Keith Hernandez. But don't know if it is mathematically possible with the updated voting.

Anyway, Judge's season, even with the injury, is so remarkable also. In some ways, he's a victim of his own success. People expect him to hit 50+ home runs and bat over .300 every season.

[TUM301]

Going Raleigh using position as a really close tie breaker. Catching about 115-120 games and hitting 55’ish bombs is very impressive. Also, maybe voters have some Judge fatigue. Now the NL MVP will be interesting as well. Side note, and have to admit as a Sox fan pretty much had him written off, T Story should finish top 5 in voting. Think he’s the only AL’er with 25 HR’s 25 SB’s 90+ RBI in at best mediocre lineup.

[philliesfan]

A little better of a batting average and the choice would be much easier.

But, I would also go with Raleigh. The statistics are so close except batting average. But I agree that position played should be taken into consideration.

Raleigh is involved with every pitch in the game and technically a ball may never be hit to right field in any given game. I think Judge has 1 outfield assist while Raleigh has 20 runners thrown out trying to steal.

What Raleigh has done offensively while playing a more mentally and physically challenging position makes him the MVP.

FYI - I am a Yankee hater but an Aaron Judge fan.

[cgjackson222]

I think it gets decided in the final games.

Raleigh has hit .208 since the All-Star game, and if he dips into the .230 range, I think it has hard to hand it over to him.

But if he pulls up his average towards .250, I think he deserves it.

Won't hurt if the Mariners make the postseason.

Pretty amazing that we can even have this debate. In most years, either would be a clear winner.

[D. Bergin]

Judge has a big lead in WAR and crushes all the hitting efficiency statistics but has fallen off in the traditional Triple Crown stats he was pushing for before the injury. Good chance he won't lead the league in any of those by the time the season is over.

I'm a believer in the analytics but also have a very healthy respect for the difficulty of the catcher position and regardless of whether his defense is off this year, compared to years past, I wonder if it's just a statistical anomaly or if he has some nagging injury that is affecting him defensively this year.

He's always proven himself capable in that aspect in the past. He's not exactly Mike Piazza back there.

It's going to ultimately come down to these last few weeks and whether one of them (and their team) get on a hot streak or not.

As a Yankee fan I had no issue when Altuve beat out Judge in 2017, and I'd have no problem with Raleigh winning it this year.

[packs]

Raleigh has been amazing for a catcher and a switch hitter. A really cool season but not the MVP in my opinion. Judge is killing the ball all the same and putting up another 200+ OPS season. He’s got the video game numbers even if Raleigh has a higher counting stats.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by bk400

I'm torn, fellas. I think I'd have to vote for Cal Raleigh. Because he probably plays the most important position on the field.

While I typically lean to the fellow with the much higher batting average, I have to give the MVP to the catcher who hit sixty homers this time just because he's a catcher.

[Shoeless Moe]

Raleigh.

Judge plays in the 3rd ranked easiest park to hit Home Runs. And yes he hits plenty to RF. Seattle's field isn't even in the Top 10.

[Brent G.]

Cal — he is THE individual story of the baseball season for a playoff team. Is there Judge and Yankee fatigue — sure, because no matter what they do in the regular season and no matter how many billions they spend, they just keep choking when it matters most ... I mean that guy SUCKS when it's all on the line. There are show ponies and there are thoroughbreds — Judge has proven to be the former through 10 years.

[packs]

I don't see how you can be so dazzled by home runs. Judge leads the league in every other offensive stat and put up a 215 OPS+. That's a Ted Williams-level season.

[gunboat82]

Still Judge for me.

His OPS is nearly 200 points higher than Raleigh's.

His OBP is nearly 100 points higher than Raleigh's, and 58 points higher than the next-highest player in MLB.

He put up Bonds-like numbers, but without the steroid suspicion.

I suspect Raleigh will get 1st-place votes because he's a catcher and a great story, but Judge was simply dominant offensively. He was so far above his peers that Raleigh couldn't catch him in either bWAR or fWAR even with the position adjustment for catchers and Judge's below-average defense.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't see how you can be so dazzled by home runs. Judge leads the league in every other offensive stat and put up a 215 OPS+. That's a Ted Williams-level season.

Hmm, Ted's best season was likely 1941 when he hit over .400 and led the league in HRs. He did not win the MVP-- that went to Dimaggio. A never before 56 game hit-streak no doubt helped Joe, but so did the fact that he was a better fielder.

Raleigh did something never done before by a catcher-- the 60 Home runs-- and the 125 RBis are noteworthy too. He played almost 30% more games in the field than Judge-- 121 to 95-- at a much, much more demanding position that also required him to usually call pitches and field general the infield, and played defensively at least as well. FWIW, he even stole more bases than Judge.

I'd give it to Cal.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Raleigh.

Judge plays in the 3rd ranked easiest park to hit Home Runs. And yes he hits plenty to RF. Seattle's field isn't even in the Top 10.

Right handed hitter in Yankee Stadium is not the easiest thing in the world. There's a reason why they're always looking for left handed pull hitters in that park. He certainly didn't get many opposite field HR's, down the right field line.

Also, Judges are usually no-doubters in any park.

Here's a couple graphics from Statcast that say Raleigh has been luckier with his HR's then Judge. Check out the "No-Doubters" percentages.

Also interesting the Park Specific adjusted numbers for Yankee Stadium and Seattle between them which is pretty close.

All that said, I'd be ok with either winning. Catcher is a brutal position, and Raleigh is no slouch in that area, even if his defensive analytics are down this year.

[todeen]

Raleigh.

The Seattle Mariners started the season nicely. Jorge Polanco was a nice April story, to go along with Cal Raleigh. And then Polanco SUCKED in May. JROD was absent. The saving force was Cal Raleigh in May. And Cal Raleigh in June. Cal Raleigh for July, and then JROD started to wake from his slumber. I get it that Raleigh has less WAR. But Big Dumper carried his team. And instead of slowing down, he kept producing. And he is a high caliber defensive player. He's not platinum glove this year. But he was still good.

People can complain about not enough WAR, low OBP, low average. But Raleigh drove in runs. The most RBI in the league! And what wins ball games? Runs. You know who got on base, but didn't drive in runs? Joey Votto. And lots of people argue against Votto as a HOF'er. Lots of Reds fans think he was a clown.

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[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by todeen

People can complain about not enough WAR, low OBP, low average. But Raleigh drove in runs. The most RBI in the league! And what wins ball games? Runs. You know who got on base, but didn't drive in runs? Joey Votto. And lots of people argue against Votto as a HOF'er. Lots of Reds fans think he was a clown.

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If you want to focus on runs, then you should also look at actual runs scored: Judge: 137; Raleigh: 110.

Judge was busy getting on base for his teammates to drive him in. And he still had 114 RBI... 11 fewer than Raleigh in 7 fewer games.

By your logic, Schwarber is the NL MVP because he had the most RBI, even though Ohtani scored 35 more times.