1919 Ruth vs 2021 Ohtani

[frankbmd]

Post #110 reiterated in post #117 is the best explanation of why this thread was started and why it is relevant in baseball history.

You cannot compare eras with numbers, different game, different talent, different century. if you cannot understand that, so be it.

And not to worry, I still love you all.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Post #110 reiterated in post #117 is the best explanation of why this thread was started and why it is relevant in baseball history.

You cannot compare eras with numbers, different game, different talent, different century. if you cannot understand that, so be it.

And not to worry, I still love you all.

Here's a question for the good doctor.

If Ohtani pitched back then his career would be over basically before it started right?

He had Tommy John surgery in 2019, what doctor in 1919 is fixing that for him?

GOODNIGHT!!!!!!

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Here's a question for the good doctor.

If Ohtani pitched back then his career would be over basically before it started right?

He had Tommy John surgery in 2019, what doctor in 1919 is fixing that for him?

GOODNIGHT!!!!!!

HOPE I DIDN'T WAKE YOU.

During my residency, one of the orthopedic residents was Lew Yocum. We were friends. He went on to become the Angels team physician for years and worked in conjunction with Dr. Frank Jobe, his senior partner, (frankjmd). Jobe gave a lot of the credit for modifications of his Tommy John procedure to Yocum. I believe Lew was present assisting in Tommy John's original Tommy John surgery.

Yocum was born in 1947 so technically you are correct. Anesthesia in 1919 wasn't so hot either. I was never trying to say Ohtani is better than Ruth or ultimately will be better than Ruth. Any numbers in the OP were merely presented to show the similarity of the two seasons for a pitcher/hitter. No other season comes close in terms of similarity score. I regret that many think this thread denigrates Ruth. It does not. Nor does it elevate Ohtani to the same level. It is what it is. The thread has had a number of views, but perhaps the launch angle was improperly conceived, but lets not get into a discussion of abortion. The thread has a right to live on Net54.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Speaking of surgeons, looks like Dr. James Andrews is still active at almost 80 years old. That's awesome.

[Shoeless Moe]

And I'm just saying to those who say Ruth couldn't compete in today's game and Walter Johnson couldn't pitch today....

....that considering how many of today's pitchers have come back from Tommy John surgery, they obviously couldn't play back then. They'd be done before they started.

Also, I'd like to see Bryce Harper & Mike Trout in Afganistan. Like Matty & Cobb went off to War, or the guys who had jobs in the offseason. Not working out all offseason, or coddled and groomed to be baseball players basically since birth. I'd be stunned if Trout knew how to start a lawnmower.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

And I'm just saying to those who say Ruth couldn't compete in today's game and Walter Johnson couldn't pitch today....

....that considering how many of today's pitchers have come back from Tommy John surgery, they obviously couldn't play back then. They'd be done before they started.

Also, I'd like to see Bryce Harper & Mike Trout in Afganistan. Like Matty & Cobb went off to War, or the guys who had jobs in the offseason. Not working out all offseason, or coddled and groomed to be baseball players basically since birth. I'd be stunned if Trout knew how to start a lawnmower.

Trout grew up in a middle class suburb, no? He probably cut his grass once or twice lol.

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

And I'm just saying to those who say Ruth couldn't compete in today's game and Walter Johnson couldn't pitch today....

....that considering how many of today's pitchers have come back from Tommy John surgery, they obviously couldn't play back then. They'd be done before they started.

Also, I'd like to see Bryce Harper & Mike Trout in Afganistan. Like Matty & Cobb went off to War, or the guys who had jobs in the offseason. Not working out all offseason, or coddled and groomed to be baseball players basically since birth. I'd be stunned if Trout knew how to start a lawnmower.

Perhaps all of the pitchers of today who need Tommy John surgery wouldn't have been injured back in the 1900-1920 era because they wouldn't have been throwing as hard on every pitch...

[packs]

I think what you're saying is that people don't know how to pitch anymore. I'd agree with that. Look at Syndergaard. He worked out enough to throw a ball through a brick wall but what good did it do him? He's not even on a mound.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by packs

I think what you're saying is that people don't know how to pitch anymore. I'd agree with that. Look at Syndergaard. He worked out enough to throw a ball through a brick wall but what good did it do him? He's not even on a mound.

You mean health problems like Amos Rusie and Sandy Koufax had?

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by packs

I think what you're saying is that people don't know how to pitch anymore. I'd agree with that. Look at Syndergaard. He worked out enough to throw a ball through a brick wall but what good did it do him? He's not even on a mound.

Very true.

I think what you had in the 1900-1920 era were pitchers who pitched hard only when they had to. I'm sure Walter Johnson and Smoky Joe Wood hit 93-95 mph for a few pitches each game, but for the majority of the game they were probably throwing mid-to-high 80s and varying their speeds. Lesser pitchers were probably throwing low 80s and maybe approaching 88-89 a few times per game. It makes absolutely no logical sense to think that those guys were throwing complete games of 120+ pitches every third day all season long and throwing 90s on every pitch, like many do today. No pitcher would have lasted doing that.

Of course, even pacing themselves, some pitchers were still going to break down with that much work.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Here's a question for the good doctor.

If Ohtani pitched back then his career would be over basically before it started right?

He had Tommy John surgery in 2019, what doctor in 1919 is fixing that for him?

GOODNIGHT!!!!!!

Excellent point about comparing players from different eras, medical advances is a huge part in players of today versus yesteryear.

[frankbmd]

Doesn’t the opponents batting average of .332 on the Ruth page bother you. That figure is for all MLB presumably for 1919. There is not one team in 1919 that hit remotely near that average.

Look if you will at the 1962 Mets with a record of 40-120, not very good. Their pitching staff was not the best I think you would agree. The opponents batting average for the 1962 Mets was .281. Doesn’t that make you wonder about the .332 number from 1919.

Perhaps there is something wrong in Denmark or at least on the Baseball Reference website. Deadball era BAs were less than .250 by and large until 1918.

Babe Ruth is great, Comparing him to anybody is sac religious.

Gloves have been mentioned as a differential between eras and I agree. You know what happened with the deadball gloves. Yup, there were more errors. And of course you know what more errors mean, don’t you? Yup, more unearned runs and lower ERAs. Deadball era ERAs were uniformly low, but runs scored not so much. The great deadball pitchers benefitted statistically from fielders who actually caught a lower percentage of the balls hit or thrown to them.

Aren’t statistics great? Base an argument on a fallacious statiistic and bingo, you win. Congrats.